CenLAw
Explore Louisiana’s darkest corners with your host Kellye and get ready for a gripping true crime podcast.
Kellye, a life-long true crime enthusiast takes you into these close to home cases and delves into intriguing all over Louisiana.
From small-town cases to nationally known crimes, the CenLAw Podcast is always going to bring you stories that hit close to home with that Louisiana connection.
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CenLAw
Legally Dead, Lethally Alive (Part 2) - The Case of Thomas Steven Sanders
**I apologize from the bottom of my heart for being late! We had billing issue which have been corrected and are bringing this next episode to you with all of our sincerest apologies!”
This episode picks up where we left off with part one, tracing a mother's tragic journey with her daughter, revealing how trust can lead to devastating consequences. From their disappearance with Thomas Sanders to the shocking discovery of their fate, we explore themes of manipulation, betrayal, and the complexities of justice in the wake of violence.
• The tragic story of Sue Ellen and Lexi's disappearance
• Thomas Sanders' deceptive charm and dark past
• The discovery of Lexi's remains and the ensuing investigation
• A chilling confession reveals the nature of the murders
• The complexities of the legal process and mental health issues
• Discussion of public safety and recognizing manipulation
• Broader reflections on trust, relationships, and humanity
This has been an elfaudio production.
Thanks for listening & Take care out there!
All🎶created by: Uncle Sawyer
Welcome to episode 36, part 2, declared Dead but Deadly. Hey guys, and welcome back to the SimLob podcast for True Crime Meets the Legal System. I'm Kelly and, as you heard in the intro, those were just a couple of little snippets from our previous episode, part one. This is part two, so if you haven't listened to part one, stop, go listen to part one. Then come back here and dig in and buckle in. Probably is a better way to say that. Just a real quick recap over everything that's happened so far. We know that Sue Ellen Roberts and Lexi K Roberts had gone on a trip with Thomas Stephen Sanders over Labor Day weekend and weren't seen again alive. Weren't seen again alive.
Speaker 1:The FBI and many, many other, numerous other agencies had gotten involved in this missing person search and what they came to find out was the last person that they were seen with, aka Thomas Stephen Sanders, aka Spider, aka actual human scum. He was declared legally, legally dead by a Mississippi judge in 1994. Yes, so he literally just like walked out, said he was going to go get something, to fix something in their house or go buy a new something, told his wife he'd be back, and then they never saw him again, never heard from him again. He never made contact with any of them. So his mother, ex-wife and, I think, some siblings had him legally declared dead and then from that point on he just kind of flew under the radar, even though he did get arrested in Georgia, spent some time in jail for battery. So he also ended up in Las Vegas, nevada, when he met Sue Ellen, lexi's mom, and they struck up a relationship.
Speaker 1:Sue Ellen was in a very low point in her life and he played his cards, right, I guess, and showered her and love-bombed her, basically, and got her to a point where she trusted him explicitly and believed that they were going to get married. And I mean, it was this whole whole ordeal, even though her family, her mom and Alex's grandma and that whole side of her family were like, please, you know, like keep your guard up, don't let this guy, you know, you know anything. But she went against their will and against their wishes and did anyway. And then when they took off on a trip to go I think it was like Arizona, and then they were gonna see the Grand Canyon, and this was all over Labor Day weekend in 2008 oh, I'm sorry, 2010 they actually did recover um footage and stuff from different places verifying, and they had the register at the motel there. They were there over there by Barizona and they were seen on the security camera in a couple of different places. So they knew that they had been together. They knew that they were there. They also knew that nobody had heard from them since then and right at this point all they knew was they had a missing person case and hopefully, fingers crossed, they were just alive somewhere and then just were dropping off the radar, but unfortunately radar but unfortunately around October. So they went missing in September, the beginning of September, and then they, in October 8th they still didn't have any updates or news but a hunter in Catahoula Parish in Harrisonburg, louisiana, found the body and skeletal remains of Lexis, which took them a while to actually identify because it was almost a month I think, because her body was so decomposed. They only had skeletons, the skeleton itself and they sent it down to the FACES lab in Baton Rouge and actually got her identified because of the braces that she wore. So it's pretty, pretty interesting and, like I said, that's all in the last episode.
Speaker 1:So that's about where I left off. Was they had officially put out the FBI be on the lookout the BOLO, the APB, all Points Bulletin to let everybody know that they officially wanted to speak to. Now they assumed that Sue Ellen was not alive. They assumed that as much, or they were hoping as much, because they were also of the opinion that she would never have let her daughter be just, you know, murdered and left in the woods. And then we started to get trickles of what actually happened and how Lexus was murdered, even though the body was completely you know, mostly decomposed. At the time they did have a really good idea and later, after the confession, they knew what had actually happened. So that's where we left off. We're going to pick right back up in there.
Speaker 1:And, like I said, the FBI had issued the federal kidnapping warrant. After they found the body and identified it as Lex's, they hit it really hard. So it was late October that they identified her body and they put out the search APB stuff. November 4th was the federal kidnapping warrant for Sanders. That's the warrant that I was reading at the very beginning of the first episode. And once that went out they had agencies all over everywhere looking and they knew that he had ties. But this man had quote, unquote ties all over the freaking place.
Speaker 1:Now the fact that Lexus's body was found in Louisiana kind of kept them down in this area Mississippi, louisiana and down this way, because you know they were hoping that he hadn't gone too far just yet. So they put out all information and they are, you know, they were hoping that he hadn't gone too far just yet. So they put out all information and they are, you know, following up on leads and tips and hints and I guess they've got multiple agencies looking for this man. And by the time that I mean like looking back through the newspapers and the articles that I found on there, I mean they were, he was just everywhere. They were articles for every single state in the United States, Like they were making sure that everybody knew that this guy was being looked for, that he was.
Speaker 1:If anybody saw him, they put out pictures. They put pictures of back when he was younger. They put pictures of him as recently as they could find because he had had like a really bushy and I have this picture on the website but he had like bushy hair, bushy beard, almost Santa-looking, but a little bit deranged or a lot deranged or whatever you want to. You know, look at it and then you've got the like whatever family pictures they had gotten, but there just wasn't a lot, and so they did what they could, though, and they put all that information out and eventually, in about the second week of November, they got a call, a tip, from a lady that worked at a Flying J truck stop in Gulfport, mississippi, that she believed that Thomas Stephen Sanders, the person they were looking for, was there. There was a person matching his description, as well as driving a car that matched the description of Sue Ellen's four-door Kia, so they scramble everybody together, they get over there, they set up all of the you know normal positions and get everybody in place, and on November 14th 2010, sanders was actually found and arrested there at that Flying J truck stop and taken in peacefully. Actually, he wasn't armed, he didn't put up a fight, he just put his hands behind his back, walked out, and that was the end of the crazy long search of missing person.
Speaker 1:Slash, now murder suspect. Slash just dead man. Search it just. All of it culminated in very anticlimactic interaction, arrest and away you go. That was november 14th now. Apparently, as shitty of a person as he is, um, and as much of a dual personality or dual complex, that duality of being a murderous abuser as well as apparently he could be very understanding and caring and thoughtful and, you know, compassionate, even if you listen to some of the people tell it and we'll get more into that when we get to the trial part. But they didn't have any issues.
Speaker 1:He started talking from the moment they arrested him. Basically he told them everything, he didn't hold anything back. He admitted to murdering lexus and leaving her in the woods in catahoula, parish, and and admitted that, you know, he, he had murdered her. And then he also went on to tell them that he had murdered her mother, sue Ellen, who still had not been located. And there was a reason for that. He told officers or investigators that after they went and visited their wildlife refuge in Arizona, they stopped at the Grand Canyon. They pulled out onto, like this remote stretch of highway of or desert off of the interstate and it was under the uh impression that sue ellen was going to shoot tom uh sanders's um 22 caliber rifle. They were going to pull over, you know, fire off a few shots into the desert um instead, while Lexus sat nearby on a blanket and they were getting things all lined up so that she could shoot the gun instead of letting Sue Ellen shoot it.
Speaker 1:Sanders shot her in the back of the head while her daughter was within feet, near feet, of her. He said he left the body where it fell and then drove Lexus over several days back towards Louisiana. And careful guys, this is not going to be fun when I tell you exactly what happened here and if you need to go ahead and skip forward about a minute. So he proceeded to tell investigators that he then got to Louisiana and went to the cemetery in the hills of Harrisonburg and that's where his father is buried. And when he got there he said he shot her three times in the head and once in the chest, and then with her while she was still alive, because apparently that didn't that didn't do it with her while she was still alive, because apparently that didn't that didn't do it for, like she was still fighting. He said that he then cut her throat with a knife.
Speaker 1:They actually recovered the knife that was used and he found it. It was found in his possession when they, when they arrested him, or I think it was in the car. Either way, he um, it was found in his possession when they arrested him, or I think it was in the car. Either way, the knife that he used actually still had the DNA from Lucas's still on the knife. So, even though all of this readily comes out, he tells that story and actually the very next day, on November 15th, the authorities in Las Vegas, nevada, actually recovered her body, or the Nevada. It might not have been Las Vegas authorities, it might have been a different agency, but the authorities in Nevada actually recovered Sue Ellen's body and everything was kind of finally come to a conclusion. They knew what had happened, they knew where they were, they had found both bodies and now they were both back home where they should be, with the people that love them. So now the rifle was also found inside and it was matched to the type that was used to shoot the poor little lexus. And, like I said, the knife had the bleak DNA on it. And there was a taped interview that he had actually completed with the FBI where he said that he made Alexis or made, I'm sorry, made Alexis get in the car after he shot Sue Ellen.
Speaker 1:And it didn't take long after his confession the grand jury indicted Sanders on I believe it was November 18th on one count of kidnapping Lexus and there was some discussion of whether or not he was going to be charged with first degree murder in Louisiana or for the murder of Sue Ellen in Arizona. But instead the decision was made to go with the federal kidnapping charge. Instead the decision was made to go with the federal kidnapping charge, and that was primarily, I believe. In my opinion I think it was more because okay, well, if we try him federally and we don't get the outcome that we want, we still have the option in both states to be able to try him under their jurisdiction for the first-degree murder of either Sue Ellen or Alexis. So they proceeded with the federal case initially to see where that would get them. So they continued to do their investigating because now they knew more details, right, so they knew what they were looking for and trying to get a better idea of how hard they could nail his well testiculars to the wall and make everything stick to make sure he didn't make it back into the public.
Speaker 1:At any point in time, and actually not too long after they got the grand jury indictment, the federal indictment, they announced that they would be seeking the death penalty. So the bigger part of this whole scenario and story, it came out that when they initially tried to fight back against the kidnapping, the federal kidnapping charges and the death penalty, in that case they filed all the normal motions. And when I say normal motions, so generally every attorney is not worth his salt and will probably get in trouble somewhere down the line, get sanctioned if he doesn't automatically appeal or automatically file a motion for the death penalty. Because it's not right. And generally in the cases where it's actually being sought, the judge is going to rule like, hey, nah, that's what they're asking, that's what they're asking, we have it on, we have it as an option for a reason, right, so they do all that.
Speaker 1:But they also file multiple motions trying to claim that he's not sane, he's got issues, mental issues. Obviously he does. If somebody like that just walks out on their own family, who would do that? Who would go this long without doing anything really terrible and then end up, you know, murdering a mom, leaving her on the side, like just trying to make it sound like he had something? Obviously, and obviously he does have something wrong with him, but trying to use that as a mitigating factor to get him off the hook, which is what they usually do. Almost every single case is going to have that as a basis for their strategy in some form or another, if they don't have a legitimate reason to say they they're not guilty, right? So okay, yeah, we're guilty, and obviously we're guilty because he admitted to it in recorded interviews multiple times.
Speaker 1:But it wasn't his fault, right? So the prosecution, the federal prosecution case, obviously they're going to focus on the confessions. He confessed on tape to killing both of them and they also had, like I said, they continued to investigate. So they had surveillance footage from a Walmart in Las Vegas where he was purchasing the same ammunition, where he was purchasing the same ammunition, the same caliber ammunition that he used to shoot Lexus. On the same day, the three left for their Labor Day road trip. So he thought about this well in advance. It wasn't like something that he didn't have in his mind before they ever left. He was biding his time and waiting and he was being a hell of a vulture predator and just waiting in the wings for the right moment to do what he had in his mind to do, probably from the day that he met her. So they, as a defense, now they tried, like I said, they amped up as much as they could about his childhood and everything. And while we're on the subject, let's talk about that for a minute. Now he he according to him and according to what his mother testified to, I think, in the penalty phase of his trial but his mom actually said that you know, he was always a little bit off.
Speaker 1:That was her name, was Mary Sue Booth and that's B-O-O-T-H-E. She testified about the history of the family, which was, you know, her grandmother was an orphan who married her first cousin. They were born out of wedlock. His maternal grandfather was actually born out of wedlock from an affair between two cousins and as a result, his father, his grandfather, didn't get any of the inheritance, so he was way poorer than the rest of their family. And then she also talked about her childhood, mary Sue.
Speaker 1:Mary Sue was one of 11 children who grew up in extreme poverty and they didn't have electricity, running water, and this would have been in like the 1940s and 50s and she and her siblings had been made to go out and get jobs and work for money so that they could eat. Basically, and that was when they were still in grade school. They had to do cotton picking or fishing or whatever they could do to get money to make the household run and most of the time they didn't even go to school. She also testified at some point that they never growing up, they had never seen a doctor, they didn't get to go to a doctor and eventually she ended up running away from home, and and that was at age 16, because she said she was tired of raising her brothers and sisters. She was, she was exhausted and she ran away at 16. She became pregnant with Sanders and gave birth to him while she was just 18.
Speaker 1:So she also said that he had had a very severe head injury, because you know they're always playing with that head injury kind of excuse. But she said he was three years old and he had to relearn how to walk and talk as a child, which I don't know how much I'm gonna buy into that, but it just for me something doesn't. I mean like I could believe it. But at the same time they didn't find any documents to back that up. They didn't have any records of that and it wasn't mentioned until, like I said, like the penalty phase of his trial.
Speaker 1:So now she described her husband as and this was Edward Kilby Sanders Kilby, the father of Thomas Stephen Sanders. He was described or she described him as a suicidal alcoholic. He was paralyzed as a result of a drunk driving accident that you know, like I said, it resulted in him being paralyzed from about the waist down or a little bit higher than the waist down, and that was early 2000s. And then in 2005, he committed suicide and that was big, you know, after being paralyzed for so long and he was already a suicidal alcoholic before he was paralyzed. So that just kind of put that weight on heavier and he ended up taking his own life. And then he was buried in the family cemetery up there, in the Booth family cemetery in Catahoula Parish in Harrisonburg, and that was, as I said, b-o-o-t-h-e. Booth. That was Mary Sue's maiden name and that is the name of the road. They actually they call it Booth Cemetery Road and then it's the Booth family cemetery up there and that's where he had left Lexis.
Speaker 1:Now, they went through a lot of ring around the rosies, as as one does, and in all of the cases that we've discussed on Sin Lob, the obvious theme is always going to be, you know, and especially when it comes to murder and things, they're going to argue all the things that they can. They're going to file as many motions as they can. They're going to. If there is a way or a valid reason to attempt to bring up sanity concerns or questions, they're going to do that and they're going to get that, and so, a lot of times, it is a matter of the length and amount of time that they put in. They're going to continue trying to work for as much time as they possibly can, and that's expected, like that's what their job entails. They're trying to make sure everything is in place for appeals later on, which that's that's part of their job. So now, when it comes to, like I said, november 18th was the day that the grand jury indicted him on the one federal count of kidnapping. Right, but that was. That would have been November 18th 2010.
Speaker 1:Now, coming back around, after like all this rigmarole of motions and filings and all of these things, it was January 26th of 2011 that a grand jury indicted him on two federal charges related to interstate kidnapping and firearm use resulting in death. So that's what they were officially giving as the charges that they're going to go with. Once they figured everything out and got everything sorted, they initially did the one just to be able to hold him in jail. So the grand jury says, yes, this is good enough evidence to assume that he might be guilty. Go forward with this. But then, when they get more investigation done and completed because it took a while and they had to talk to all of the different states agencies, because this is spanning across at least the two states between Nevada and Arizona I'm sorry, nevada, arizona and Louisiana, so the three states and then figure out exactly what they wanted to do moving forward and what was the best course of action to get the result that they wanted, which was basically to put him to death.
Speaker 1:So, january 26, 2011, they indicted him on the two federal charges kidnapping and firearm use that resulted in death. And then they also announced in a little while later and I say a little while later, I think it was August of the next year, august of 2012, that they announced the death penalty. Now, what is taking so long? Like, why are they getting to the point where they don't? We just went from November 2010 where they've arrested him and they found the remains of Sue Ellen in December. They were confirmed in December. They found them. The next day after he told them where they were. Oh, they were confirmed in December. They found them the next day after he told them where they were, and then he was indicted by the grand jury on the 18th. And then what happened? Why are we jumping from January 26 2011 to August 1st 2012? Let me let me explain something to you.
Speaker 1:So initially, like I said, he did full confessions, even went so far as to tell them where to find sue ellen's body. But the reason for the gap in time from him being arrested to the time he actually went to trial on a federal court in alexandria, louisiana, in 2014 the reason for that gap is because they had so many issues, so the jurisdiction jurisdiction was one issue. They had motion after motion after motion saying, okay, well, he was indicted on this one in Louisiana, but that one needs to be thrown out because it's double jeopardy, because both charges could result in the death penalty and you can't do that. So they had to do all of this legal wrangling to get everything set up the way it should be. They also said that he hasn't been either. He hasn't been convicted of either anyway. So you can't claim double jeopardy because neither have been tried or adjudicated. So while they're doing that, they say that you know, even even with all of that, like we'll and see. And then he'll still face state charges if everything doesn't work out.
Speaker 1:And then his attorneys were arguing the entire time to get things thrown out. So they're arguing about the fact that, yes, he gave full confessions, yes, he did all that. But he actually affirmatively and unequivocally stated that he wanted to speak with a lawyer and that they didn't get him one and they didn't stop questioning him and they didn't give him counsel. So they said all of that shit should be thrown out. And then, you know, they say, you know, the the other side says well, he only wanted to ask about certain things. He didn't want an attorney for reasons to not speak. He just wanted to ask about specific questions about how it was going, like the process, not so much not talking. Just tell me what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:And then they continued, like I said, with all of these different motions and all of the things, trying to figure out exactly what happened and exactly how all of these different motions were going to play out. So it took them all of those years just to be able to get to a point where they could actually start the trial, because they had motion after motion after motion, for all of everything you could ever possibly imagine. If I wanted to try to go through it, I would never have enough time. I could do an entire year's worth, and I still wouldn't be able to cover all of the different motions and things that they did for this case, and I don't even know all of them. So, basically, it took from the time that he pled not guilty to the kidnapping charges on November 19, 2010,. It took from then until September 3, 2014, almost four full years to actually get to trial, and this would have been federal charges for kidnapping resulting in death and using a firearm in a crime of violence that caused a person's death. Those were his two charges in federal court that they did at the Alexandria location, alexandria, louisiana, for the federal court trial.
Speaker 1:Now, this started on a Wednesday. They started with opening statements, so the jury actually was chosen prior to, but the opening statements began on September 3rd, and for the opening statements, the defense and prosecutors agreed on mostly everything. They, as the defense, though, they were saying that they feel like the jurisdiction still is not proper, that the federal jurisdiction is not at all okay, like there's not enough evidence to prove that it should be a federal crime or in federal courts. So that was her biggest argument for the whole thing was that you know Sanders accepts full responsibility for both the deaths and even admittedly saying that you know it happened and that he did it, but it was just a vacation I think it was, quote a vacation that went terribly, horribly, sadly wrong.
Speaker 1:And shortly after opening statements on both sides, they started to have their witness testimony and they had the hunters who had discovered Lexus's body get on the stand and describe how they found it on the property. They showed the photos of what was left of the body of Lexis Roberts and again, just trigger warning might want to skip ahead a little bit if you get bothered. The photos that they showed were of a skull with small pink braces still attached to the upper teeth and a purple unicorn stuffed animal that was found near her body. They don't dispute well, the defense didn't dispute that the remains were Lexus's and that you know that they had met and that he had killed her, like all of those things they gave them. So they say that everything.
Speaker 1:And then I kind of touched on this earlier about how he had shot her three times in the chest, once in the head and she still hadn't died. So then he took the knife and he cut her throat. He confessed to the child's death after being arrested and then he also confessed to shooting Sue Ellen, even though he said he claimed to love her, that he was in love with her. And he said quote to love her, that he was in love with her. And he said quote, I just shot her, I didn't know what to do after that unquote. And then when they told them about how long Lexus's body had stayed in the woods and how badly decomposed it was, he actually responded with quote she didn't deserve that unquote. And I mean, anybody can pretend to be remorseful.
Speaker 1:After the fact, and according to different articles that I read, he apparently sat in the courtroom very quietly, very demure, didn't make any kind of big emotions, he didn't have handcuffs on, but there were two marshals that were sitting very close by and that you know that he seemed to be someone that doesn't come off entirely as a double murderer of a child and a woman and just out of nowhere randomly shooting her in the back of the head. But then you look at the evidence, then you see that he planned in advance. He got the bullets from the Walmart the day they left. But this was always the idea in the plan that he made a point to get her and her daughter alone and away from their normal place at a time when the family knew that they were supposed to be going on a vacation, so that he would have enough time to be able to get out of dodge.
Speaker 1:After he did whatever he was going to do or go wherever he was going to go and did just fly under the radar and like he had done 20 years earlier when he abandoned his family in mississippi. Because, remember, he's good at this, he's done it before and even though they get the witnesses on there, they even have the psychiatrists who had done interviews with Sanders over the years. I think he had done like seven different interviews over the three years. They discussed about what he was willing to talk about and then the different psyches and what his professional opinion was and basically that he was definitely off his rocker a little bit, but it wasn't anything. It's not? He said quote. It's not that he's unwilling, it's that he's unable. Quote.
Speaker 1:And he said that he did discuss some of the details of the two deaths, of the two murders that he committed. He said that he wanted to go to new jersey but he was driving and not sleeping and he ended up in places he didn't want to be. And then, when the psychiatrist pressed the issue of motive, he said that his response was clear and he said this is exactly what he said, quote, well, you know, I wanted the death penalty, so I did that, so people would think I'm a monster, unquote. And, on the other hand, you know, half of the defense was, you know, he didn't exactly remember any of the details or he was kind of shady and didn't want to talk about any of the details he didn't really remember. But this was only when he, because he was talking to the psychiatrist. So the psychiatrist was saying that he had blocked it out or that it he was unable to get into any kind of specific, um, details about it. And then that's when the prosecutor came back and asked you know, hey, um, you realize that he gave a very detailed description of where her, where her mom, where sue ellen's body was, and that she was found exactly where, he said, and exactly how he left her. Um, yeah, he admitted that he, he didn't know that that was the case, but, um, he also the psychiatrist he quoted. He said quote he believes he had special powers to predict the future, he believed he had the ability of telepathic communication and he believed that he was the offspring of ancient aliens who mated with the people of the Earth.
Speaker 1:Now, this was a very interesting and like the most gripping and most repeated headline that had so little to do with this case, but it you know, this Mississippi man who was declared dead so many years ago says he was descended from space aliens, ancient aliens, whatever. It was very, very good for business, for the papers. He couldn't have said anything better to sell papers. You know what I mean. So he said, you know that he would believe in all of that, that he was descended from that ancient race. But then he wanted to turn around and say that he had an abusive upbringing and that his life was so hard and that his family was terrible and his dad beat him and all of the different reasons. But then you know, are you descended from space aliens or are you just terrible at life? And your life sucked so bad that you ended up murdering an innocent mother and her child? Hmm, interesting.
Speaker 1:So so I mentioned earlier that I'd get back to it about the person who, you know, was really upset and couldn't believe that he had been arrested for something as heinous as this. There was a lady named marianne who lived in las vegas that he had been staying with and helping take care of and when I say hoping to take care of, he had access to her bank account. He wrote checks for her, he went and did her daily chores and errands. He would check on her in and out, never showed any signs of any kind of dangerous personality traits, was very caring and loving and just kind and generous with his time and with this patience. Never, ever, showed an inkling or a sign that he had this in him.
Speaker 1:And she cried her eyes out during her testimony because she just couldn't believe it. She had a. They did a video deposition because she was in really bad health and couldn't travel. But she knew him as Spider. She knew him as his nickname Spider. But she was so upset about it because there was no way in her mind that he could have been the same person that did these horrible things.
Speaker 1:And that just goes to show you, like I was talking about earlier, the duality of him and that was so glaringly obvious. Like a lot of people, most humans, you can't see it as clearly defined as this. But you have this evil, useless, worthless human of a person that murdered for no other fucking reason, I'm sorry, than just to do it. And then you have this other, really caring, understanding, that caregiving type person that showed no signs of anything other than being a generous, loving, emotional and empathetic human. How, how, how, you get that same person, or the person who bought bullets ahead of time at the Walmart as they were leaving to go on this trip doesn't make any sense, except that it you know he's psychotic, that an actual psychopath. However, after everything was said and done and all of the arguments were made, all of the motions were ruled on, all of the decisions, all of the closing statements were completed © transcript.
Speaker 2:Emily Beynon. Thanks for watching no-transcript ridiculous happened.
Speaker 1:But I have a really I like seeing things in paper Like I like having things in my hand. I guess it's back from reading books as much as I did as a child. Even though I do have a Nook e-reader, e-book or whatever, I still like the feel of paper in my hands. So I tend to print things out when I see them, especially if I don't know if I'm going to be able to find them again. So I printed off the actual document that they used during his penalty phase of his trial for the jury and the mitigating factors that were presented before them. And the document is 22 pages long, I believe, and it number itemized these mitigating factors out all the way from one to 106. And then I've never seen a document like this before, so that's why it's also really really interesting and cool. This document actually says it gives places for not just like yes or no, but it has numbers of jurors who find that the previous statement is true or isn't true, and that's the line was where you put the number. So there's, of the 12 jurors, how many believe that he had brain damage? And the number is 12. And that is really interesting because it gives you kind of that insight that you don't really get in other places or in other cases. But yeah, so it's, and I'll have this on my website as well, sunlawpodcastcom, and I'm about to wrap up here. So this is the document. It's titled United States District Court, western District of Louisiana, alexandria Division, and it tells you all of the information there.
Speaker 1:But penalty phase, special verdict form, count one kidnapping resulting in death, and then it goes through every single question that they have to discuss and find whether it is mitigating or not mitigating, whether it matters or didn't matter, and I'm going to post that on the website for you guys to go look. It's really, really interesting and kind of hilarious. But there are some of those on there that kind of surprised me that they were even on there. Like, do you believe? Let me see the one like suffers from mental illness was one of them. But the one that I thought was definitely interesting was that do you think that he has the ability to care, or that he's remorseful, or do you? The one that was interesting was do you think thomas, do you think his dad, edward kilby sanders, was a suicidal alcoholic? And they didn't think so. The jury didn't think so, and that, you know.
Speaker 1:I just it was interesting to me because in the specific instructions it says that if they find that it's a mitigating factor so maybe it's not so much that they don't believe it, but they don't find that it's a mitigating factor that they're that that can be used as a reason as to why he shouldn't get the death penalty. That can be used as a reason as to why he shouldn't get the death penalty. But what's crazier is that after the four-day trial to find him, that was just for guilt or innocence four days. It took them less than an hour to find him guilty. Right, the penalty phase lasted seven days and it took them over two days a total of seven hours, or almost seven hours to find whether or not he got sentenced to death. So you're talking about seven times as long. But they also had to go through all of these mitigating factors and all the extra stuff, and I get it, but they did all of that, taking twice as long on both the trial part and the deliberation part than it did to find him guilty. And then they actually did go ahead and recommend the death sentence in his case in both counts. So he was sentenced to death on september 26, 2014 and from that point we're about halfway. We're about halfway done and we're banking on a ride in an hour here, so I'm gonna go ahead and wrap this one up.
Speaker 1:So this is the end of part two. I apologize again, but I will get part three out and I will have both part one, part two and part three available on the Patreon. If you want to go check that out, go check out the website so you can look through the documents I was just talking about that are no longer available anywhere else. That I can find, because every time I try to click on the same link that I got to use as a source for the material, it says it's not available. So, yeah, you got the inside scoop with me and make sure you check out the website, simulapodcastcom, then check out our different social media accounts and all that fun stuff, and then make sure you come back next week for part three or go check it out on Patreon right now. So thank you guys so much. I'll see you later and you guys take care out there. Thank you so much for listening to the Sin Law Podcast.
Speaker 1:This episode was written, researched, edited and produced by your host, kelly.
Speaker 1:Any reference made in the episode can be found in the source material in the episode show notes, and even more information, including photos, video links and other extras, can be found on our websites at cinlawpodcastcom that's C-E-N-L-A-W podcast dot com. Also on our podcast website. You can find any blog posts or past episode information on there, as well as sign up for email updates from us every time a new episode drops. You can also, and we invite you, to, follow us on our social platforms, on TikTok, youtube and Twitter. All of those are also linked in the show notes, as well as just a quick away on the website on sinlawpodcastcom. You can always reach us by email at sinlawpodcast at gmailcom. If you would like to be a supporter of the show, just search for us on Patreon. The lowest tier starts at five. The highest is $15 per month. The highest is $15 per month, and this includes lots of early episodes, unedited episodes, bloopers, other stuff. Just a lot of bonus content that is exclusive to Patreon members and, as always, take care out there.
