CenLAw
Kellye, the true crime enthusiast, and Kyler, her willing partner, delve into intriguing cases from Central & Northeastern Louisiana.
From small-town cases to nationally known crimes, they bring you stories that hit close to home, always with that Louisiana connection.
Tune in bi-weekly for your true crime fix and support their show for a shout-out in the next episode.
Stay safe out there!
CenLAw
“Connie Shouldn’t Be Forgotten” - Remembering with Special Guest: Bradley Smith
What if you could find hope and resilience in the darkest of times? In this profoundly moving episode, we honor the life of Connie Yvette Smith, a young woman whose tragic death left an indelible mark on her family. Join us as we connect with Connie’s older brother, Bradley Smith, who takes us through his journey of grief, healing, and transformation. With a rich background in psychology, Bradley shares his heartfelt story, exploring how his sister's untimely death shaped his career and life path.
Bradley offers a vivid recount of the night Connie was murdered by their neighbor, Bryan Brown. He brings us into the chilling moments that shattered their family's sense of security, providing raw and emotional insights into the immediate and lasting impact of that horrific event. Through his narration, we gain a deep understanding of the bond he shared with his sister, the emotional toll of the subsequent trial, and the protective measures taken during his church mission amidst danger from an escaped convict. It's a testament to the enduring strength of familial love and the haunting weight of last words.
Our conversation with Bradley also dives into the valuable lessons learned from such a profound tragedy. He discusses the heightened awareness and lifestyle changes that followed, stressing the importance of vigilance and safety. We explore the complexities of grief and the powerful journey towards forgiveness and healing. Bradley’s anecdotes about Connie and the transformative love of new beginnings provide a beacon of hope, ensuring her memory lives on and continues to inspire others. Tune in for a story that reminds us all to trust our instincts and cherish those we've lost.
This has been an elfaudio production.
Thanks for listening & Take care out there!
All🎶created by: Uncle Sawyer
Hey guys, and welcome to this very special bonus episode of Sin Law. I'm Kelly and today I'm going to be taking you into a very different from our other episodes. Setting here, we're going to step into something heavy and into the shadows of a moment that we've already explored. You might recall from episode 31, the Connie Yvette Smith story, where I shared her story of how she was tragically murdered at age 17 in her own home by a neighbor that was obsessed with her and couldn't take no for an answer. His name was Brian Brown, but he is not the focus of our stories today, not by any means. Our focus today is on Connie herself and on the family that she left behind. Last week I got a fan mail through Buzzsprout, my hosting website, and it was actually from and if you haven't listened to episode 31, stop right now, go back, go listen to that and then come back here. Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1:So now that you've listened to episode 31, I initially thought it was the brother, just because it didn't make a whole lot of sense. It didn't add up, there were a lot of things that didn't connect and my true crime mind said well, it's kind of fishy, but it didn't come across in the news articles and things that I was reading, how close in age and how close in heart they were to each other. Her older brother's name was Brad Brad Smith, bradley Smith, and he was about to be 19. Smith and he was about to be 19. He was just shy of 19 when his sister was taken from him. And, lo and behold, last week I get a fan mail from Mr Bradley Smith Smith and after I came out of my gripping and frozen shock, we had a conversation, or a few conversations over a period of time, and he agreed to talk with me and tell me about that night and about his life since and all of those things. So I got the privilege and the honor to speak with mr bradley smith and you know we've been in contact off and on before and after that, um, just discussing different things, and come to find out, like my mom, we see, and connie, like I told everyone in the episode and at the in episode 31, that they knew each other, but also, I believe now, like they all had some inter mingling at some point or another.
Speaker 1:Anyway, very interesting, very, very small world, I guess. However, he reached out to me, we spoke, he agreed to speak with me. He allowed me to record it and I'm not going to do a whole lot this episode. I'm going to let him speak because I feel like this is something that needs to be spoken and needs to be heard, especially from the viewpoint and from the words and the mouth and the emotion of someone who was there, because at the very end you'll see and you'll hear this more than once Connie does not need to be forgotten. Her story does not need to be forgotten. What happened that night should never be forgotten by anyone. So if you take nothing else away from this, take that to heart, listen to her story, don't forget it. Pass it on to someone who may need that, who may need to hear this to be able to be safer, to live longer, to be happier and just to remember, to remember Connie.
Speaker 1:So, before we take the steps off of the into the abyss here, I got again the honor of speaking with Mr Brad and he is delightful and a wonderfully well-articulated storyteller, well articulated storyteller and very well spoken, very articulate. I can't say enough good things about him and, from everything that I've gathered and from what you'll hear yourselves, there are situations and events in our lives that either change us for the better or changes for the worse. And you would think that having something this traumatic and this, something this awful and then just so egregiously unnecessary happened to you so young in life that it would forever have an effect on you. And I think that not just Bradley himself, but his, their entire family needs to be the the gold uh, gold standard for what you can do in spite of great loss and great tragedy, and that it is possible to go forward and to to be productive and to be, you know, contributing member of society, as it were. So I'm going to stop rambling. I will now introduce you to Bradley Smith.
Speaker 2:Yes, do you know? I had. I was laughing at myself earlier when you, when you said something about recording up that. Oh my gosh, I'm so hickish. I believe that I'm educated. I go, really. I do have a couple of degrees.
Speaker 1:A couple degrees is modest. He has a bachelor's and a master's in psychology.
Speaker 2:Life takes, you know, interesting turns. I went on my church mission and I came back, finished some time over at LC and then transferred over to Southern Miss and finished my master's. During that time I got married and had a kid. As a matter of fact, my ex-wife and I we were very good friends still. She and I graduated together. She had a master's in speech-language pathology and a master's in counseling psychology. I came back to work in the 80s to do an internship and worked about a year and a half and I had an opportunity to work at one place that I swore I would never work, and it was a prison.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you heard that right. One place that I swore I would never work, and it was a prison. Yeah, you heard that right. He grew up, went to school, got a master's and decided to work in a prison, A federal prison.
Speaker 2:Federal facility. I was given a couple of years. A couple of years turned into 25 years, did a lot of interesting things there, met a lot of interesting people. You know I actually did some time over at Pollock, that federal complex. But what I did over there, I was on the crisis negotiation team for about 25 years. I was 23 years on there. So I did, you know, my psychology job, did the crisis initiation, so it was a good experience. It was a wide variety of things, made a lot of great friends and now I'm actually working again after we've retired and all got old.
Speaker 2:I've been wanting to connect with these guys over the years but I've been raising grandkids and being single and doing that. You don't always have enough to get out. I'm going to go back to work with these characters that I used to work with. It's been great. One of the beautiful things about the people I work with at least the majority of them is they were true to their character. We met when we were in our 20s. They were true to their character. We met when we were in our 20s. We're 60-ish and older and we all seem to be the same as we were in our 20s. It was just a testimony to me that they were just genuinely who they were, because they're not having to act now Sincere, hardworking, honest people who do the best they can in a job that a lot of people would never want to do.
Speaker 1:And if there could ever be a definition that would fit Bradley Smith more perfectly, it would be exactly how he just described his co-workers that he came out of retirement to work with again. His job now is a little bit different compared to what he used to do when he first started. Now he works for ICE, the immigration network, and he basically flies as a security personnel on these flights back and forth, transferring immigrants back to or from their destination or their home country.
Speaker 2:There's nothing extravagant or, you know, really glamorous, because you go there, you bring the inmates or detainees over to the government there and they deal with them, and periodically we stay overnight, like in Peru, brazil or someplace like that. Stay overnight, like in Peru, brazil or someplace like that. I always have to rest. We get there, we get to spend the evenings hanging out, eating, buying things to bring back.
Speaker 1:All in all, you would almost never suspect that this casually jovial sounding man had been through something so heart-wrenching. And as he discusses the family dynamics, you'll start to hear a change, subtle but present, and probably because we have already heard this story of what actually happens or the rendition of it that was given to the newspapers. So you can understand why speaking about the family and the dynamics from the past could start to affect the way he tells the story.
Speaker 2:My dad was a very, very hardworking fellow. He did his 20 years with the military for 23 years at Alexandria Senior High. Laying around was just not an option.
Speaker 1:And that didn't stop with his dad, his mother or his three brothers or himself. All of the members of this family went on to be productive, well-rounded humans, and one has to wonder how that is possible after you hear the story that Brad is now going to tell.
Speaker 2:What's interesting about you know? I'll speak about myself. You know, in this case, here that Friday before I went to I was still at LC. I went to my classes, I went to. We were church custodians at our church when it was over on Bayou Rapides. I went in that day to clean and buff and mop some floors and get set up for Sunday. I had a date that night and then I dropped her off at my lovely car and went back to work.
Speaker 2:I worked at the church that night until about 2.30. We could work at any hour over at the church. I could go to class and do whatever, then go back and work as long as the place was ready for meetings whenever they were scheduled. That's what I had done. I had picked up the play about 6 o'clock. Oh no, let me back up. It was another thing. Went to college, went to school that day, went to work and then about 5 that evening on that Friday I had my last meeting with our congregation bishop to finalize the paperwork for my mission church missions. That was the night that we finalized and everything and was ready to go the paperwork and they sent it into Salt Lake City to the church headquarters and then I would get my mission call. It was about three weeks later that I got my call to Sicily, you know, completed the paperwork went and picked up. We went on. Our date took her back, had a rule 11 o'clock it was as late as we needed to be out. The date was away and I went back to work. Like I said, I left about 2.30 that morning. I got home just before 3, probably 5 to three.
Speaker 2:Mom and Daddy's house is a split-level home. We still own it. It's on the market but it's a split-level home. I came in through I had a bedroom door that went outside so I would park and I came through my door into the house. And you know, back then we didn't lock doors. Nobody did. Nobody locked them. So I came through my door. I had a bathroom downstairs and I was standing there brushing my teeth and washing my face and honey came in about 10 minutes later, so five minutes after three.
Speaker 2:I was very protective of her and she started to tell me about her evening. She was all excited and I fussed at her. To be honest, I fussed at her because she didn't want to tell me. So she stopped talking While we were talking. I do remember this extremely well and, like I said, this stuff is so burned into memory that I have no doubt that I'm not mistaken about any detail that I can take. I'll tell you if I'm not real clear on something.
Speaker 2:We had several cats, two in the house. One was a cat, cat Smokey. The downstairs stairs that went to the center level of my home were concrete. I didn't hear anything in there. The stairs going up to where Connie's bedroom, my brother's bedroom and my parents' bedroom was at were wooden and you could hear the cats running up and down the stairs. That's all these steps. Connie and I were talking down at my bathroom and during that time I heard what I thought was the cats up the stairs. It was not. It was Brian who had been hiding in the center level of the home in the dark in our living room, creeping up the stairs. When he heard me talking, to me talking, he went and hid in her closet and again I didn't think anything about it. She goes on upstairs.
Speaker 2:I go into the kitchen, I made a bowl of raisin bread, I went back downstairs and I ate in my bedroom. This happened pretty quickly. I mean, it wasn't a big one. I was hungry, ate something real quick. Laid back. I remember laying back on my bed with my legs hanging off. I was wearing a pair of running shorts.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you these details because they actually bring them up to court. They show pictures. I was in good shape, I was athletic, it still worked out. I was 19. I was short of be 19. Laid back on the bed and I heard scream. Now I don't do horror movies a very legitimate reason for not doing it. Ptsd was until a couple years later. But the scream was a scream that. It was a shrill scream, so loud, so intense, so piercing. It was like she was in the room with me, even though she was in flight stairs to the upper level. And I heard something my mom would say something about blood. Well, connie had chronic bloody noses. They could be severe. So I thought, scream, what the devil. So I ran up my flight of stairs. The hall light was on. The hall light was on and as I came up those stairs I got to the top stairs and Brian Brown crossed right in front of me. I mean, within a foot I could have reached out. Pants were open in the front. He was holding them with his left hand.
Speaker 1:So I did interrupt him at this point. I had to ask if he had immediately recognized Brian Brown or if he had some kind of concealing mask or anything of the sort, because this was the part of the story that didn't make any sense to me, because this was the part of the story that didn't make any sense to me. He went into a house that was fully occupied with all intentions of being caught. Was he planning on killing everyone? What was he thinking? Unfortunately, we won't be able to answer that question, but Bradley did answer mine on whether he immediately recognized Brian or not.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, they had a full profile. You know, ironically about all of this, this was on Saturday morning. Two Wednesdays prior to that, connie and I drove him and his sister to church. In fact the night he killed her she had gone by. It was a little gas station that's across from Marler Ford. It's been long closed. Back then it was one of the only stores around. We used to ride our bikes to it.
Speaker 2:She had gone in the store that night on the way to her senior party or school party, class party, and he'd asked he's barely asked her to go out with him and she declined. You know she had plans. You know that was something we learned after the fact. She had gone there to get gas and he was working in the gas station there. She told him she had plans but I can't see her having said that. Yeah, he just couldn't. He couldn't take it and you know we didn't know till after the fact that he'd been in a in and out of our house many, many times, he'd take pictures and whatnot. That that was kind of a. That's one of those things that leaves a permanent. Yeah, it's when I come in the house, last one in the door locked. I'm sorry, just lock the door. It's not a big deal, it's not, you know, if we're not going back out, you know, and at night definitely check the doors. You know things that we didn't do Back.
Speaker 2:When he came down the stairs, I mean I knew him instantly and I thought why is Brian Brown and at this point still I'm thinking Connie's been hurt Bloody knows? That's the severity that I'm thinking. Typically, we don't think along the lines of those kind of things happening. Yeah, you know I'm thinking bloody nose. Hey, connie has bloody nose. Maybe he hit her.
Speaker 2:I didn't see the knife. I think it was, I'm not sure which hand it was in. I'd been in his left hand, which you'd think I would have seen it. But he was moving so fast. I just looked at his face and while I came up the stairs I could see he was holding his pants as he ran and I was, you know, his face. I mean it was so quick, but it was right there and I could have grabbed it.
Speaker 2:So he went out the backsliding glass door of the house and out to Hermitage Road and started running down. He lived at the end of Hermitage and to the left, so you know, five minute stroll, you know easily. He ran down a couple street lights and he turned with one of the lights to his back. So all I could really do is see a silhouette at that point. And so I was, you know. I said what are you doing? And his left shoulder dropped and it looked like a punch coming. So I blocked what I thought was a punch with my right arm. I was able to raise my arm just above my shoulder. The knife went through my arm arm. He was trying to hit me in the neck, so I was blessed to raise my arm. I mean, still wear the scar if I pick up things. You can see the pretty poke pushing through.
Speaker 2:And then when I realized what he had done and and then he took off, he just he turned, he faced, he faced me. He never said a word. I was a runner, so catching him was not a big deal. You know, you made him feel threatened. I'm like I was wearing running shorts and nothing else, and the light was to his advantage. You know he could see obviously I had nothing in my hands and he was going to kill me too. You know it wasn't his initial plan, but it was a convenient thing for him to do at that point. So anyways, it was just such a reflex. I saw the shoulder drop. It looked like a punch coming and I blocked it and I beat him with my knife. Then it occurred to me the knife. So he runs on to the house. Mind you, he goes home and puts the knife up and goes to bed Like no big deal.
Speaker 1:At this point he's realized that his sister probably isn't just suffering from a nosebleed and runs back to the house. What he sees there when he arrives is beyond heart-wrenching, and his retelling is not for the smaller ears or younger audience, so please be advised and run through the front door by this time, mom or dad?
Speaker 2:sure it's not, because when I went, ran through the front door and looked up the stairs, my dad was trying to carry connie down stairs. She was saturated in blood from head to toe and he was covered in blood, with blood all over the wall. It was just the carpet was just soaked in it. When he had severed that primary blood spot and my dad tried, you know, her chest was filling up and so when my dad tried to pick her up and cradle her, he just forced the blood out of her chest. So she was blood out of her chest so she was slipping out of my dad's hands while trying to get her downstairs and all the little brothers were. Fortunately, some neighbors across the street came over and took care of them.
Speaker 2:I drove my dad and Connie to the hospital. She took her last breath right before we crossed the Ocala Bridge in front of Bula. I remember calling to her and saying can you come here and take that last and be excited? She said yeah. By the time we got out of there it was just a matter of meditation. Last time I saw her I was walking by in the ER and she was on a table. I could see her body lying there. I remember my dad falling to his knees and holding on to me crying what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? It's fuzzy.
Speaker 1:And, as anyone could ever begin to speculate, of course things got fuzzy. At this point His memory, 41 years later, is nearly photographic, but then things start to kind of blur.
Speaker 2:Of course our home was a crime scene so we went out to some friends of ours who lived out on Bayou Rapide.
Speaker 1:At this point, brad and his entire family were kind of ducking the press and trying to stay out of the media headlines, and understandably so.
Speaker 1:Um, from what I understand and I think I mentioned this in the podcast episode her funeral was standing room only and they needed to be away from that.
Speaker 1:So they hid out and, like he said, it gets blurry for him after that. So I ask him more specific questions surrounding the knife and his wound, because those two things were also very vague in all of the research I had done. Specifically, I asked him the size of the knife and the well, he had already mentioned that the knife had gone through and through in his arm and I was curious as to what kind of damage that had done to his arm specifically. And he seemed to almost gloss over the fact that he had had a knife plunged through and through his arm because of the situation which anybody who's even whether you've experienced something like that or you've heard a second hand adrenaline does crazy things. So he drove his family with his sister drawing her last breath and never mentioned his arm again until I ask him like I bring it up, it's almost like it's not even there, like it didn't even happen, but you have to know that that had to have been severe, just based on his description. Listen.
Speaker 2:It was through and through the it was. He was a kitchen knife. It was probably, I think it was a standard butcher knife length, so I'm thinking that the tip came out. The it was probably about a one inch blade tip came through the other side, not the hole anyways. Um, apparently you had mentioned the defensive wound. There was a possible defensive one. She had one in her hand. She tried to grab. The first time he tried to stab and the second one was the one that was successful and she crawled across and she screamed. I opened the door and she was on her hands and knees, crawling over to me. She collapsed into his arms.
Speaker 1:And here just to clarify, I asked was this secondhand knowledge or was this something he saw with his own eyes? And he clarified again that he never made it all the way up the stairs. He pursued the intruder.
Speaker 2:Chased him out. I didn't see her until I came back in. He was trying to carry her down the stairs. The things you don't forget.
Speaker 1:Again, just to show you the strength of his character and the will and belief in his faith. Would anyone would allow to completely shut them down?
Speaker 2:he didn't when I came home off my mission. I want to go back just kind of fill in a couple of things. People I did get used to get a lot of questions. I won't speak for my brothers so much. I will tell you what I do remember. Their minds were young, some of the things they do remember. Clearly I can tell you some things that I was told I didn't witness but I have no doubt that they were true. It's based on some conversations with at least one of the brothers, one of the youngest, oldest just under me, but no, after Connie was killed I went ahead and served my church mission.
Speaker 1:And in my mind it clicked that he would have been on his mission when Brian escaped. So I had to ask how did that affect him being on a mission?
Speaker 2:when that happened I was on a mission. I got a call from the man over at the missionaries in this part of Texas. They called him the mission president. President Tyler called me up. It was unusual to get a call from him. He called me late one. It was unusual to get a call from him. He called me late one evening. He said Elder Smith, you know I need to tell you something. He said Brian Brown escaped. They don't know where he's at. When we're on our missions they usually have our addresses up in the church so people can write. We're afraid that maybe somehow he had gotten my address. I was the only material witness for the trial. He tried to come for me. He passed. I was in San Antonio at the time, so he did pass Somewhere in Texas. Anyways, I basically was told I had to hide out. I mean, I could still perform my duties as a missionary but if anybody called looking for me or if they saw or see strangers, they would not know who I was.
Speaker 1:So basically, you were in a witness protection program.
Speaker 2:Pretty much so. When he was finally captured later that year I had my wife again, my missionary companions. There was four of us living in an apartment. They didn't know anything about my situation, never made a scene out of it. I still don't. I never have. People will come to me and go. I started working at Oakville years and years later. Over that 25-year period that I worked there, people would go, and even it happens now. I don't know. Are you related to Manny Smith? We'd be working together for a long time before they'd figure out it was me. I went ahead and served. They said you don't have to go. I said no, I'm committed to it, I'm going. So she was killed on the 14th and I left on my church mission. On 28th of July they reassigned me to the Texas San Antonio Spanish Mission. The trial ended up happening, so I tried to get off my mission Either way. It was still committed to go. I didn't get to go to Sicily, but um she uh.
Speaker 1:And here we start to get into the reports, the trials, types, information, and even though they tried to make some kind of bad insinuation, all it does is lead Brad into telling us about the amazing relationship that he shared with his sister.
Speaker 2:They tried to discredit me, to even imply that Connie and I had some kind of romantic relationship. Yeah, of course they did. I'll tell you sick SOBs, connie and I were very close. We were more like twins when I say we were close, we were very close, were more like twin. When I say we were close, we were very close, when you move a lot in your side children, we double dated in heist we go we, we go out together, but no big deal. We knew each other weren't going to do anything stupid so we could go out and have fun together and go on dates together and matter.
Speaker 2:Matter of fact, I drove the car you know, when she was on homecoming court her senior year. I drove the little convertible. In fact I've got some pictures. I drove the car for the homecoming. I escorted her to several things. I mean we just went to clubs. Nobody knew that. I mean it was not a secret. People at church knew it, people at school knew it, people anywhere. I mean it was not a secret. People at church knew it, people at school knew it, people anywhere. I mean we loved being together. We got along very well. Well, you know, I felt bad. I've lived with that guilt ever since, because the last words that we had together I was fussing at her instead of being excited for her, because Connie was not a drinker or a smoker or a doper or anything of the sort, she just was a clean, fun kid. You know, 41 years later, it still bothers me that. You know our last exchange with me I squished her excitement and fussed at her for being light, you know, being an outsider. Well, it's true excitement.
Speaker 1:It's what's better for being light, you know, being awesome and, as you guys can imagine and the people who know me more closely, I didn't let him continue on very long in saying this. I can tell just from this, the brief interactions that we've had, the love and caring and just absolute respect and all of the things that you could possibly feel for someone that you love or care about. He had that for his sister and there was no doubt in my mind that she had it and I told him as much.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm sure sometimes, and I do believe sometimes, the veil between mortality and those who have passed on can be thin. They can see that you love them even though they've passed on.
Speaker 1:And this next bit came across prophetic but also a little eerie foreboding. Prophetic but also a little eerie, foreboding, but at the same time I've I've had these moments in my life where I've I've been in a situation and thought what would I do if? And insert here, so I felt this story that he is about to tell everyone deeply, because we never know. We never know which moments will be our last and what memories we'll have seared into our minds with the rest of our existence.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, I can remember February, before she was killed. You know I don't know Premonitions, call it what you may, but I can remember in church the second Sunday of February 83, sitting there. She was speaking in church that day. I remember, while she was at the podium thinking what would it be like if something happened. I remember getting really teary-eyed about it because I could never imagine life without it.
Speaker 2:When it happened, I got a first-hand understanding of what it would be like. You know, oh goodness, you know. You really can't explain that to hurt people.
Speaker 1:And we kind of moved into the world of how far reaching a tragedy like this. It's so vast and most people don't think about it. But here's just a touch of how far this goes.
Speaker 2:You know the effect that it had on the family, at least for me. You know my three brothers had each other. They were very close to each other. They were little demons in the neighborhood. They were mischievous, trust me. They had each other and Connie and I had each other and mom and dad had each other.
Speaker 2:And when Connie was killed I felt disconnected somewhat from the family because they still had each other and I didn't feel like I could fit in. And then, I guess, looked at my children we're much, much older than their first cousins, brothers being much younger, so their cousins would be much, much younger. I had thought over the years how my children were cheated because they didn't have first cousins on my side or close to, and they would talk about it. There's nothing for us to do when we go there. All the younger cousins get to hang out together because they were 10 years younger than my kids. That's probably the one, one of those things that I, if I was ever angry and brown about something it was not just cheated me out of many, many, many years of memories with somebody that I loved, my children lost out on me. It affected their wanting to really go home and hang out because there was nobody for them to play with, like the other cousins had. Being married helped me, you know. At least have somebody there by my side, still not like having Connie around One of the things that I mentioned about an officer from work.
Speaker 2:Years later. I remember sitting in my office. It wasn't uncommon for staff to call psychology and just want to come and vent. You know, just kind of keep it off the record and just have somebody there. I got a call from this one guy and we talked, we were filming each other. He was kind of a quiet soul, so not a big talker, but very, very friendly to me. One day he called me and he said hey, can I come talk to you? I said sure. So I thought he was coming to say man, I'm so sick of this Lieutenant, blah, blah, blah. And he came in and sat down and he just, he just kind of stared at me from there and I said you okay? He said yeah. He said do you want to talk? He goes I've been wanting to talk to you about something for a long time and by this time we'd worked together for 20 years wow and he said you know where I used to work before I came here?
Speaker 2:and I said you know where I used to work before I came here? I said I think Angola. I said you know Brian Brown. I looked up at him. I said I sure do. He goes. Well, I do too. As a matter of fact, I'm the one that processed him. I said, oh really. He said okay, he goes, something I've been wanting to share with you. He says I just want to be, I don't want to upset you or anything. Go ahead, just tell me. He said one of the things he had in his property was what was in it. He said his floor album in his personal property was of drawings and pictures of men having sex with dead people. He says did that make sense? Did that seem like a possibility? I said yeah, yeah, I heard something similar said like they were investigating he was going to kill her. You know whether he was going to have sex with her or not, even you know.
Speaker 2:It just makes you wonder like what do you think the family's not going to know?
Speaker 1:and, just like that, we were back to questions that we have no answers to the why, the, what, the. And just like I want answers to all of my cases, obviously, obviously, and of course, brad wanted answers about his sister.
Speaker 2:You know, I tried to actually go talk to him around, you know, but they didn't go so she wouldn't talked to him and it, you know it wasn't to. I just wanted to understand what, what he was thinking. I explained that to him. Now, you know, in a lot of ways I, you know, I don't want Connie's, even even though it's connected with such a hard thing. I don't want her to be forgotten. I don't want her death to go unnoticed and I think people do need to learn from traumas that other people experience and deaths of other people. I mean, you know it put an awareness in the community that needed to be put there.
Speaker 2:We were complacent, we laid back about, you know, door locking and lights. You know, hey, why are you in my house? Anybody that's close to me knows when we go to a restaurant and sit down, I never sit with my back to the door and they just know, they just don't even question. And it's a lifestyle for me. Now, it's not something I make a big deal out of, other than when the grandkids come in here and say in my house we come in and we're the last person in Because people, home invasions are real. Craziness exists.
Speaker 1:And that, more than anything, is what we want to convey and for people to take away from. This is that message Bad things do happen. Bad people are everywhere. If there are humans, there is bad, there is evil, there is the possibility of evil, possibility of evil, every true crime ever. If you watch the news interview, what is the first thing the person being interviewed says oh, I never thought it could happen here, it can happen anywhere. Please don't forget that.
Speaker 2:I'm an absolute bear when it comes to my kids. I'm a small guy. I'm only 5'5". I am a monster when it comes to my kids. I don't even play games with them. My daughter I have embarrassed her more than a few times, even as an adult. From what I've experienced in life, and then spend 25 years working with criminal thinkers, I can sniff a turd out. Yeah, you know, when it's your life, you just kind of say nope, that's not a good person to be with. I told her one time. I said you want to do me a favor and help keep me out of jail. Quit picking people that I'm going to kill somebody over. You're going to get me locked up.
Speaker 1:Which I thought was great. Every father should be a father bear and be worried. But before I let him get off the phone, because we had over two hours of conversation that night and I had to ask what was the one all-encompassing favorite memory or pastime that he had with Connie and if you would share it with us.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed sitting with Connie. She would play and I would sleep. Oh wow, I would sleep. It's like I have a piano. It's a little five-foot six Mason Hamlin baby. Oh wow, it's the one thing when my mom and I decided to sell our house the oldest, this is the only thing I want. I could care less about anything else in the house. I want to be it Right. So I moved it down here. Next year I sit and play it myself sometimes.
Speaker 1:I used to love just to just casually sit down and keep playing and sing with her and on his feelings about Brian, the man who murdered his sister, who took her from not only him, mother, and on his feelings about Brian, the man who murdered his sister, who took her from not only him, but his children and his grandchildren.
Speaker 2:You know I've never hated the man. I'm angry that he took my sister. I've never had hatred towards him. I get most black. It was hard enough losing her. Didn't want to have to shoulder hatred. There's some things you can't control, like the missing and the longing and the hurt. Those things I really couldn't control. I could control hatred. You know you don't take it enough. You know those things I really couldn't control. But I could control the patron. You know he'd already taken enough. You know I believe that he's going to. You know, so he'll have to answer that. My job, that I have to answer for, is did I treat him as a savior in my father's heaven?
Speaker 1:He treated me which is very likely far better than I could ever ever feel or think. Maybe, I don't know after 40, some odd years, maybe it would be different, but I don't know that I could ever be that graceful. But I completely agree and understand that allowing yourself to hold on to hatred is overwhelming and it's exhausting and the healthiest thing to do is to let it go.
Speaker 2:And if it's your favor, if you're, if it's your appetite, let go and let god I've heard that a lot or if it's just, let go and live I remember about five years after she passed, I I was married to my first child and I remember one day I got to realize all of a sudden I felt this physical weight off of my shoulders that I'd had when I was there and I talked to my ex-wife about it and I said my ex-wife about it, and I really think the conclusion that I came to, and that I still believe exactly, is that I was able to let more go any reason. You know it's kind of hard to explain. When you've experienced something like that, you do feel like there's this physical weight pulling you down Depression, call it, Anxiety, call it. I just remember getting up about five years after it happened and I felt it was directly related to Connie's passing.
Speaker 1:We all agree, or we did all agree, that children are miracles and his first child allowed him to make room emotionally, physically, mentally, for the love that he was going to give her and she needed to get that she needed to receive from him and that helped him move on from his grief. So that little girl helped save his life before she was even alive, well, breathing anyway. And of course the most natural progression from babies is to mothers. When we got to talking about how he felt that Connie may have been as a mother and I tend to agree- Fantastic mother.
Speaker 2:She'd been a very devoted wife, too Talented.
Speaker 1:She would have been the package deal, the rock-solid man and I did ask about the situation where Brian's still alive.
Speaker 2:he's still in Angola and unsurprisingly, he'd been asked before. They get that from people where's Brian Still in Angola? Somebody posed the idea well, what if he breaks out again? He just broke into the house. It won't turn out pretty. You know, I don't wish any undie on him. He's got his, raised my children to be.
Speaker 2:Some people call it. I just say it's a lifestyle of conscious awareness around you. The situational awareness is something that we preach in the prison system. I had an old correctional officer when I started in 90. He pulled me aside one day because I looked like I was 15 years old and I said I'm a little guy. He said listen, if you ever walk into a unit, you walk and jump towards a crowd of inmates.
Speaker 2:Something doesn't seem quite right. You don't need to know what it is, just back up calmly and leave the area and go get help. That stuck with me my whole life since then. If something doesn't feel right, you don't need to know what it is. Back away and reassess. And if you can't figure it out, you don't need to go wherever this uneasy feeling's at. Don't go there, go a different route. You don't need to know why. I've lived that way ever since and you can do it in a way that nobody realizes that's what you're doing, so you don't look like you're freaking out and just keep talking and acting normal. Thank you so much, kelly. Look, y'all have a good night okay, you do the same.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Now, this next part, I removed completely from the original order in our conversation because I felt like it needed to be the focus. To be the focus what you take away from this episode, from this podcast, from this story as a whole. Connie doesn't need to be forgotten.
Speaker 2:I don't want her to be forgotten. Connie doesn't need to be forgotten. I don't want her to be worshipped or anything like that. She wouldn't want that either, but she was an incredible person who had, you know, hopes and dreams, potential, and they were cut short. The least I can do as a brother is keep her memory alive. And what a good person she was.
