CenLAw
Kellye, the true crime enthusiast, and Kyler, her willing partner, delve into intriguing cases from Central & Northeastern Louisiana.
From small-town cases to nationally known crimes, they bring you stories that hit close to home, always with that Louisiana connection.
Tune in bi-weekly for your true crime fix and support their show for a shout-out in the next episode.
Stay safe out there!
CenLAw
Beneath the Victory Cheers - The Case of Ivrin Bolden, Jr. Case - 2/2
Our final descent takes us through the corrosive relationship of Joel Tillis and Ivrin Bolden, whose tale of control and jealousy serves as a grim reminder of the perils of a love turned toxic. A pivotal phone call uncovers a labyrinthine battle with sexual identity and the psychological chains of manipulation. We confront the haunting emptiness left by a mysterious disappearance, and the dread that grips the soul with the discovery of a woman's body, shrouded in red and abandoned to oblivion. As we lay out the pieces of this grim puzzle, we stand face to face with the stark reality of lives interrupted and justice that remains, perhaps forever, just out of reach.
Source List:
- Parker, Fran. Deadly Triangle: A True Story of Lies, Sports and Murder. Illustrated ed., New Horizon Press, 2009.
- https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-06-16-sp-1948-story.html (Joel's body found)
https://tulsaworld.com/news/states-disagree-on-death-probe/article_f6b65dcc-a28d-5803-9dbb-97e3092ba721.html (Joel - jurisdiction)
https://newsblaze.com/usnews/crime/a-three-way-toxic-love-affair-with-a-deadly-twist_63906 - https://www.newspapers.com/image/220850681/?clipping_id=141524395
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-03-07-sp-8178-story.html - https://www.upi.com/amp/Archives/1987/12/16/Judge-denies-change-of-venue-in-college-murder-case/6175566629200/
- https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-jackson-sun-memphis-joel-tillis-mi/17368623/
- https://images.app.goo.gl/YZ2zJ6wVzLqSN8Qk7
Appeals & Writs
- https://law.justia.com/cases/louisiana/supreme-court/1994/93-kk-1933-3.html
- https://casetext.com/case/state-v-bolden-26
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Previously on CenLAw episode twenty two part one, beneath the victory cheers the murder that shook Monroe. So last episode just to do a quick recap. We went all the way back to actually, we eventually went back to eighty three, but the murder of Brenda Spicer. The eighteen year old up and coming hopeful at Northeast Louisiana University, now known as ULM. In Monroe. She was murdered. Her body was found in a dumpster outside of/ on campu s outside of one of the buildings in between the museum, which is where the
Kyler:It's not a zoo. As it's
Kellye:The Coliseum, which is the gymnasium. Basically, this is what they call their gym. Okay. So in between the gymnasium and
Kyler:They don't have lions.
Kellye:Conveniently, the warehouse storage lockers of which Ivrin Bolden, who was the main suspect. He was taken to trial for the murder, um, owned a storage locker, which they surmised she had been murdered in, and then he had taken her from there to the dumpster on the campus on his way back to the game right before. So long story short, he goes trial.
Kyler:And they bungled it.
Kellye:Well, bungled, whatever, but you also had testimony from star witness for his defense. I didn't think they was she gave him an alibi that stood up to the test according to the articles from the jury that they did interviews after the trial was done. And not only did the girlfriend testified, this girlfriend was even more believable because she was also the former teammates on the basketball team at NLU with Brenda. They were very close. According to testimony in trial, she said they were like sisters the lesbian girl. They were lovers. They were in a relationship. And according to the book by Fran Parker that I mentioned a lot last episode, and we'll we'll continue to in this episode as well. Deadly Triangle, a brand wrote that, you know, everybody pretty well knew that they were lesbians, that they were in an romantic relationship that was interfering with the relationship that she had with Ivrin, which caused him to be jealous, which caused him to
Kyler:to
Kellye:lose it, and what she
Kyler:said, if that was how it started, would have at least made some sort of sense?
Kellye:What do you mean?
Kyler:I mean, like, if they had just right off the bat and gotten together when when she and I've run. I've run we're we're together. But, like, if he hadn't been stalking and creepy and rapey beforehand, I don't think that that would have actually happened.
Kellye:Well, entering speculation station pulling in, in a big old caboose, way in a back. We There are mentions of exes from one specific ex from his high school that he did for a while that she disappeared and was never found and was classified as a runaway. That is a rumor. That is a rumor. That is a basement. You know, a lot of people's park financing. A lot of people I found at least three different mentions of this. Mhmm. And for cooperation, I could not find an article related to any kind of missing person. I believe he was at high school. However, just like he he somehow became a father going well, one of these things that I'm gonna mention real quick is that, again, we're talking about the late eighties, early nineties where being gay was almost as bad as being a woman and also almost as bad as being racist. Like, it was just there was a there was a lot of things going on. Like
Kyler:Think about that.
Kellye:I oh, okay. So the way I said it didn't. Okay.
Kyler:I I know you were the one
Kellye:Black, it was bad if you were a woman. It was bad if you were a lesbian and a woman and you were black. It was never gonna happen. You weren't gonna make it out of that alive. And coming from a perspective of they probably were infatuated with each other. They probably did try to hide it and keep it from themselves or to keep that from being their kind of relationship because they knew it could never be a thing and because they knew they could get in trouble, because they knew they could cause drama and hardship and issues within everything, but they only had to last a little while longer because Joel Tillis, who was the girlfriend slash former teammate slash girlfriend of the deceased Brenda slash slash slash liar on the stand. Anyway, she was about to graduate. She was gonna graduate in the spring of the next of eighty eight. So they wouldn't have to wait much longer. They could, you know, exist outside of the college. They could exist outside of the team, being teammates, and being lesbians, which ease a little bit of that stress because, again, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna scoop into the station because Frein and her novel she state specifically something to the fact that her account and I have I mentioned this last episode, her account of the events of of all of this is is semi firsthand. But novel that she wrote, she kind of writes in a fashion of omnipotence. I'm I'm sorry. That's wrong. Automation. So Yeah. Omni presence.
Kyler:Yeah.
Kellye:Anyway, she can she's she writes from the perspectives of Joel, and she writes from the perspective of Brenda. And I'll like, it it's third person third person omniscient. So Omnipotent. Right? No.
Kyler:No Omnipotent is all powerful.
Kellye:Right. Right.
Kyler:I'm just she's all knowing and omnipresent is the
Kellye:Okay. So Everywhere. Regardless, she like God, sitting there watching this. She fly on a wall, whatever, however you wanna put She is Absolutely. Speaking as if she was there in some of these occasions and when we know she wasn't, but a lot of the information that she got for the novel came from people that were. But again, you can only take that so far. You can only take it as much as you want to put stock in it. So fictionalized, true story, artistic measures were taken. So my point behind all that is to say that in the novel, there's a specific chapter talking about the day of the fifth, March fifth, leading up to Brenda's murder. And in the novel, Fran says, that, you know, Joel had gone with Ivrin and basically had decided that she was gonna break it off with him so that she could be with Brenda. And her and Brenda had kinda planned this public breakup at an ice cream parlor after Joel had gone and spent time when Ivrin in that morning, they meet up at the ice cream shop unbeknownst to Ivrin to dump him. And he is all cool con collected, Mr. Cucumber, and says, okay. Well, we can still be friends. We can make that work just to be friends. Right? Right? So long story short, he plays it off.
Kyler:A lot of long story short.
Kellye:It doesn't make sense at all. And by the time that Joel realizes that Brenda is missing, she knows what happened. She is I mean, there there could not have been a singled out in her mind. Otherwise, she wouldn't have lied for him. She wouldn't have covered for him. She wouldn't have destroyed the tape from the basketball game showing that it changed clothes at half time. She would not have allowed her mother to get on the stand. And and, you know, because her mom also testified, not Ivrin's mom, Joel's mom. Joel's mom gets on the stand, says he was there the whole game. There was no waiting yet time even though they had other witnesses to the contrary, people who saw him leaving the coliseum, people who saw him, you know, a good distance away at the same time that he says he was either in the bathroom or at the concession stand. So take that for what it was. The jury made the decision. They did not declare a mistrial. They voted eleven to one to acquit, and that's what happened. He was acquitted. He was found not guilty. And he and Joel sailed away, rode off our horseback into the sunset. Right. Happily ever after he's gonna, go to the military he was gonna let them pay for his doctors, medical education, and it was gonna be smooth sailing from here on now. You believe that?
Kyler:Yeah. You shouldn't.
Kellye:Yeah. Because it's not what happens. Unfortunately, because there wouldn't need to be a whole other episode if that was what happened. Mhmm.
Kyler:ohaveu love to talk sometimes.
Kellye:I do. I when we're talking and I do it to tell stories, so that's why we're here. Speaking, I'm telling stories before we get into episode twenty three hit it. Meat and potatoes. Okay. So, hey, if see my worked out that our audio on the other recording messed up and we had to redo this because we got our very first. Patreon. And part of being a Patreon for cinema. Is getting a shout out for joining and onboarding this. Yeah. And I wanna say, Kailah, thank you so so much. I will shortly be sending out your commissary package because she only did she become a Patreon, she became our life without parole member.
Kyler:Of course, she did.
Kellye:Of course, she did. She gets the big package. Alright. I mean, because you've never fine. So thank you so much for your patronage. And I'm still trying to figure out what I wanna call Patreon members. So if I get more than 1K, I'll let me know. You throw something at me. If if I like it, you we'll just go with it. Because, I mean, like, first grandkid gets to go it gets to make the the grandparents' names. Right? So it's kinda like that. You get to name with the rest of the coronae aircraft.
Kyler:About those. Because that the coronae is Expect those. We expect those some over tropicists.
Kellye:Does they do for that?
Kyler:And you guys wanna check it out.
Kellye:There's, like, there's some stuff that is is not required to have a membership to see, but a lot of those do. Stuff. Juicier stuff or any more bonus pictures. A lot of the unedited blooper reel type stuff is in there. And I've got pictures of my like episode preparation notes and things. It's just a lot of cool stuff. And also, as soon as you become a member, you get a care package. If you become the life without parole, though a lot And You're welcome. And I think that one's I think it's a five dollar buy for the all members. And all of the stuff is the same. I don't break up the only thing that's different between the bigger care package and commissary package in the smaller package is literally what you get in your initial member gift package.
Kyler:Because that's for cereal stuff in the big world.
Kellye:Right. You you get more things. And and because you're gonna be in there for life, so you gotta have more stuff. Right? That's my idea.
Kyler:Anyway But at the very least, because you paid more so you can get more.
Kellye:I haven't said that. Thank you so much, Kayla. Again, very first, Petrone, the Nissan member, and I couldn't be more grateful. You should have seen the smile on my face earlier. I was trying to figure out because I'd never had a member before. I didn't know where to go had an alert on
Kyler:my phone pretty much all day
Kellye:because I couldn't figure out how to clear it. So anyway That's great. I did my I did luxury shorts. Thank you. And everybody out there, you don't have to be a patron to be a patron is You don't have to be able to try whatever from what you don't have to be an expecto to be able to get my affection. I appreciate you guys just being here and listening. We're gonna scoop right on into nineteen eighty eight. This is episode twenty three, part two. And two in nineteen eighty nine as well. We're gonna kinda roll into that. This episode we are I'm gonna get through the bulk of the end of the story here pretty quick. And and I see pretty quick. It's probably gonna be about twenty twenty five minutes. But it doesn't take long to get through this to get to the next court section. Right? But once we get there, it's
Kyler:been with it for a while.
Kellye:It's gonna be a little bit of a lot. So That's a lotto. It's a lotto. That's true. And by that, I mean, this case and I think I mentioned this last episode, it's got so many legal laws. And, like, what happens? The there there are presidents and and different parts of the law that you have to get into in things that I actually had to go look up because I didn't know what they meant. Like, I learned a lot just because of this one case about a multitude of things. So I'm gonna get a little bit preachy, a little bit tea tree Okay. A little bit loyered on the end of the episode. So if you're not really here for that side of it because I do try to make sure and have a a a legal beat of education of the legal system because that what I like to believe is a little bit different about our true crime. We throw in not just the crime part, but we also, like, keep a little bit the the legal the legal side because I find both equally fascinating. So having said that, let's go back. To nineteen eighty nine. Give a little bit of your love to be as the trial of Ivan Bolton. His acquittal occurred on March thirteenth. So almost exactly a year and a week. After Brenda's body was found. They had a three hundred liberation, then he was off on his merry way. And now since we've already recorded the first good chunk of this. I'm I'm trying to not skip over things that I know I included the last time, which is difficult However, I do know that I made mention because it comes into play a little bit later. I've written senior because remember is Ira Bolton junior. He is junior doesn't do a lot of talking in the media and such. But senior loves to talk to the press. Like, I literally have a note in my notebook, which you can see if you have the picture on the Patreon. Eight. So, Kayla. Kayla. And actually, the only note that I have I have arrows pointing at Ivern senior. He loves Underline Underline Underline Press. And then there's another handwriting off to the side that'll note jotted chatty as fuck. Because literally, I I as I'm scrolling through the new the newspapers and getting all of this background and and to see exactly how this kind of worked throughout this, you know, timeline I kept coming across Ivan Baldwin Senior, Ivan Baldwin Senior, and, like, the headlight and the things that this man said, some of you guys are going to be in reach out. It's not gonna be fun for you. It's probably gonna make you wanna hit something. And as long as that's not, like, your children or your pets, like, go for it. I'm like pillow, your anger, pillow, aggression, pillow, go with that. I hear that's a thing. I Is that what you call?
Kyler:Yeah. I I can't say it on there.
Kellye:Okay. Beautiful. So as he was leaving, and getting back to his life is normal or whatever the hell you wanna call it. The newspaper article is read, bold and focuses on the future. Now that nightmare is past. Golden eyes of future, not the past. Golden jurors, alibi, was just the test. And then there is a mention on about the, I don't know, I guess, the seventeenth of a March eighty eight that said that the case was reopened by the police, but that was the last mention of that ever because the article actually ended with a quote from one of the investigators saying we got the right guy the first time. So Yeah. That's what they still believed and they weren't wrong. So let's keep trucking. So Not
Kyler:a trucker.
Kellye:Yeah. By mid eighty nine, they went to Marla Bates, that is Joel's mother. They went to her house for Mother's Day, and that was May sixteenth of eighty nine. They had moved to Tennessee with Joelle's cousin. So it was Joelle Iraen and Shannon. That was her male cousin that moved up to Tennessee with the two of them because Iraen had flown out a college. He blamed it on the try.
Kyler:After being a valid Toryn?
Kellye:Yeah. Wow. He fucked initially, he fucked out of med school, but then he was going to take, like, his chemistry
Kyler:Which is am I giving that that that's That's still something hard.
Kellye:Yeah. No problem. But he he was going to do his chemistry major stuff, but he had told the newspapers and when he was eyeing the future that he was gonna go to the military and then that he was already recruited, and they were gonna pay for his school yada yada yada, that didn't happen. He did not finish college in any shape or fashion. He actually packed up and moved out or moved in with him in Baton Rouge or somewhere down there. After she graduated in the spring of eighty eight, and then after the trial stuff. And then they moved to Tennessee a short time after. I could never find it, like, exact positive date. And when they actually moved to Tennessee, I just know it was between the late eighties, early eight early late eight, early eight nine year. So by May, they were living there. They had come down to visit their Joelle's mom in Hammond, and that was on May eight or May sixteenth. I'm so sorry. And day left after that weekend, Joelle's mom, Marla, she said there was no lines of anything off or, you know, nothing nothing sat with her as uneasy or made her think that there could be a problem brewing or that something bad was gonna happen. It was just a normal visit. And she gave them all kisses, told them all love. You to then sit them on their way back to Tennessee? At this point, Shannon, the cousin, Ivan, and Joel were living in an apartment together. Joel was the breadwinner at this point because Iraen had just gotten fired from a security job that he had and he was working at Graceland. And we talked about this the first time we recorded even though, you know, we can't get that. And I'm I'm still gonna put it on Patreon because when we talked about this the first time, it was a question that I had for Kyler, and I was pretty I was pretty surprised and shocked that he hadn't been too gracely. And I I've been to Graceland, and my mom is in Elvis well, we see. She was on one of the other episodes. She is in Elvis nuts.
Kyler:We see you.
Kellye:Yeah. So Kyle has never been we gotta take the kids and go up there because it's actually really cool. So that's why it's, like, up. But anyway, so great land. That's where we were talking about doing the tourism things. And Ibrance had actually got the cousin Joelle Shannon. She he had got him a job working in security as well. Well, Shayden checked his job and for whatever reason, which I could not figure out, it was not mentioned, I even lost his. So at this point now, because you're not a very secure person. If anybody actually rather insecure. Right. If if anybody remembers from last episode, which you could probably connect the dots here. Ivan likes to be in control. He likes to be the one that is able to have that grip basically and say, I've got I've got the money, I've got the job, I've got the wealth, I I'm providing you have to do what I you know, all of those things. So now
Kyler:figure out how to be a god damn people person.
Kellye:Now add to that the fact that you've murdered someone. And I know you murdered someone because I testified that you didn't murder someone now, I'm just as guilty as you. And that add that to any relationship and tell me how that works out. You've got her holding him, well, I'll just go tell the police. And then him, well, you go tell the police, then how could you
Kyler:You're a little bit comfortable.
Kellye:Exactly. So you've got this push and pull back and forth. And if you leave me off tell them that you were a part of it or, you know, that kind of thing. Because he's that guy. He's a hundred percent that guy.
Kyler:Yeah. From that.
Kellye:Like, he's out kill myself if you leave me, but instead of that is I'll take you down with me if you leave me. Yeah. So and is believable because I mean, like, strangled, raped, and brutally savagily murder. Anyway, so popping.
Kyler:Exactly.
Kellye:Tensions, the egg shells, the Egg shells, an amount of just overwhelming that had you be building up with inside of Joel because it never was a great relationship. I mean, they had good points. They had good things about them. But
Kyler:Yeah. Joel.
Kellye:According to a friend a close friend of Joel's at the time that would that would talk to Joel on the phone pretty frequently. She later told I I believe it was Fran, but it may have been second hand. Again, not second
Kyler:hand, not
Kellye:second hand, Fran. She told that friends Mhmm. Within the day or so of the events that I'm about to tell you about that she Oh, those ones? Mhmm.
Kyler:The the devotion for Khuzco
Kellye:Khuzco Khuzco Fuzin? Her friend said that she felt trapped, that she wanted out, that he was obsessed, And what I talked about earlier with the ice cream parlor, that actually happened. That would explain a lot. Because she had stood her ground, said, I'm leaving you. I'm done with you. I feel, like, I'm being pressured and feel trapped, and I want out. And he was like, okay. Cool. Cool. Cool.
Kyler:Cool. I'll let you out. Cool. Right here
Kellye:in this kitchen. Murder. And then now we can be together, see how much I love you. I got rid of the problem. And
Kyler:You you were the place
Kellye:Instead of running and screaming the other direction. She was so sweet. No. I don't even think it was that, honestly. I think it was, like, oh, well, I guess this is my best option now. Which is sad, but I honestly think that just from everything that I've read and everything that I got and that's probably where that line of thinking in. So anyway, so they're in this really shitty relationship. This terrible dynamic and you every single one of you, man, female, whatever you identify my ass, you deserve better than anything close to this. So if this sounds familiar, Jesus Christ call me, send me an email. I'll come get you like, don't don't do this. So this was I think it was May seventeenth was the phone call, was friend. And there was an article I came across that actually said that friend mentioned something about finding of scene pictures of Ivern, and that Joelle said she was knocked when she found them and what they portrayed of him. And
Kyler:It was a booty.
Kellye:And there was another piece of information that she told the friend about, which was a letter from a intimate friend who was a male that she found along with these obscene pictures. So remember how and I don't even shit. I think that was in their loss recording as well. And I mentioned something about them both having baysetool and or gates. Yeah.
Kyler:I'm pretty sure that was in the
Kellye:last month. Anyway, in my opinion, it's a hundred percent my opinion. No one else is no one else is responsible for the majority of the same.
Kyler:I guess it's a hundred percent opinion.
Kellye:I'm gonna for sure, but that most of it is backed up. And I try not to put too many head be over to my actual opinion of what I believe.
Kyler:This is a self made self Right. English. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna talk about things in our own brains, ourselves.
Kellye:So my opinion is if they if they both if they weren't gay completely, they were both very bi bisexual. They were equally attracted to the opposite sex. But as taboo was it was for lesbians, it was way more taboo for gay guys. So I get it. So it was just that it was just And that that would also account for some of the irritation in the pent up rage and, you know, that that feeling of control and all of the things and to be able to prove I love women, look how pretty she is, look how good I did, look what I look what I have. Look, actually, can't be gay. You know what I mean? That kind of idea, which would make sense because the time. But then again,
Kyler:that should still happens today.
Kellye:That Yes. I I yeah. I know. So that's kinda my point. So May seventeenth of nineteen eighty nine, she's on the phone with this really close friend, which is now kind of the friends reported later. It is kind of remedicine of the Brenda situation with Joel because Ivern has started acting jealous of her because they spent a lot of time on the phone. Joe, I would call her and complain you know, just girl talker. They'd wanna if they wanted to go out, he had to know when, where, how how long, and who they were gonna be with, and he started to portray those same kind of reactions and emotions towards this brand. The controlling
Kyler:Right. Semi sociopath was a Right. Also he was also going to alienate her? He was he was making sure that he was the only one that she gives you the She'll get you in contact with something that if if she wanted to have any friends that they had to be her, Right. They had to be him.
Kellye:Well, and and you add on top of that that this specific female friend was known to be Wasness of the straightest arrow. Yeah. So she she also like women. So she's a curve. Mhmm. So he knew that. He knew that about her. And whatever it was, whether it be jealousy, whether it be upset because she had gave French she could talk. Did you mean my good and good move? However, you wanna call it he didn't like it. And before they got off the phone at around four AM, that morning. So they had talked from the night of the seventeenth to the early morning hours of the eighteenth. Her Joe Allen, this friend. And she said before she got off the phone with her, Joel made it clear, like, I'm done. I'm not doing this. I'm over it. I'm I'm not I'm not doing this anymore. I'm gonna I'm gonna leave him. When she hits it before and she had left before and, you know, wouldn't have stayed with her mom for a while, and then we eventually went back. Because who else what else bond you to someone like extreme drama, which is They don't really fucking anything. Right. But psychologically and historically, this is an actual occurrence. Like, oh, gosh. And for my At that point, we're running together. You're gonna
Kyler:At that point, he'd been he'd been controlling over so long. She might have just had stock on this.
Kellye:Well, honestly, if if you think about it, this was me a fan of from the eighty three this is eighty nine. That's six years.
Kyler:I'm going fucking dying.
Kellye:That's how long were they?
Kyler:How long were they?
Kellye:Oh, but oh, yeah. Absolutely. Like, the most malleable years of your life.
Kyler:Not even that. Just in in the amount of time that they had lived, six years out of twenty four, it's a quarter of her life. Was my was my point I was trying to make, I didn't know how old they were.
Kellye:Right.
Kyler:Or do you remember?
Kellye:Well, that that's that's kind of my point too, though. Like, those are very formidable years to conquer as they are, but you throw in something like all of the tangled web that this is, it gets even murkier and harder, and then you you kinda get such in this run of nobody else is ever gonna understand me or, you know, be able to love me in the same way because they don't know all of my skeletons and such. So she left sometimes She came back. She always came back. Well, at this point, like I said, she was the main breadwinner, and she was working at a lady footlock at the mall. Mhmm. They're in Nashville, I believe. And
Kyler:Sounds about right.
Kellye:She was working, and so she needed the car. Well, that morning, her and Ivern got into an argument about something to do with the car. The cousin was present and was there and witnessed the argument that he was like, every interview he gave back that it didn't seem like it was a big deal later they wouldn't have breakfast at McDonald's. It didn't like, it seemed like it was all good. It didn't seem like something that would have warranted what happened next. So that was all in hindsight
Kyler:of what I mean. But none of what they do seems like it should warrant what happens next in any of their
Kellye:Any of it. None of it. So Joelle had to be at work by noon and or by one. So they left actually, Ivan ended up driving her in the car instead of letting her take
Kyler:the car, which is getting into the engine. Has to be at work. I mean yeah. But still like,
Kellye:he didn't have a job.
Kyler:Oh, you didn't want her to take it?
Kellye:He didn't want her to take the car. He wanted to be able to control the situation and now it's giving her a way to leave because he didn't want her leaving without him knowing.
Kyler:Yeah. That's retarded.
Kellye:Yep. This is him. Still. So
Kyler:I just I I because in my mind, the the most logical outcome if it was that that was taken into account him needing a car. If we're actual something is, you know, he take her and then take take it and take bring back and pick her up. Because that would be the most logical use of the fucking car.
Kellye:Right.
Kyler:But he just doesn't want her to use it. That's right. That's dumb.
Kellye:He doesn't want her to be able to add and independence to be able to go where she wants to go and do and she wants to do without him knowing. So they leave that morning he is taking Joel to be dropped off at the mall. And come that evening, Joelle's mother calls and asks Ira, hey, have you heard her part? She didn't call me today because Joelle called her mother like clockwork every single day if for no other reason just to say, hey. So it was kind of all I but not crazy. Like, off because they don't have cell phones. They have to have a landline. So, of course, like, sometimes things happen. You get caught up. You get tired. Whatever.
Kyler:Somebody's on the computer.
Kellye:That's not even that time yet.
Kyler:Okay.
Kellye:So he says, well, last time I saw her, I dropped her off at work, and I haven't heard from her since. And Joel was such an a good employee, and she'd already become a manager in there. At the Lady Foot Locker. And the her employer at work, her her boss at work had already called and made note of the fact that she wasn't there. So everybody's like, okay. Well, she's just going to blow off steam. Her friend's like, yeah, she told me yesterday she was gonna leave, so maybe she'll show better moms. So when mom calls and says, you know, have y'all heard from her you know, that should have been a big clue. Right? So by the time the nineteen rolls around and this is the second day in a row that Joel has not called and not showed up for work. Her employer and her her coworkers call Ivern and they're like, look, if you're not gonna say she's think we will. We will call the police. We will make a missing person to report because this is not like her. She has never missed more than one day ever for working here for as long as she had already. And this is way out of character. If you don't do it, we will. She said, no. No. No. No. It has to be me. I'll do it.
Kyler:Red flag number
Kellye:two. Number seventeen hundred and forty three. She goes basically to this instance. So even crazier than that and even more evidence to the fact that she was not just off on her own because she had two full paychecks waiting for her at the store. Like, Okay.
Kyler:She was gonna leave she was gonna leave with some banks.
Kellye:She damn sure would've come and got the money first. That just follows all logic process.
Kyler:So let me get that. Let me get let me go let me go get my fucking shit. My Uh-huh.
Kellye:My mistake. Yeah. Exactly. But no. She had two checks still there. Never picked them up. And finally, on May nineteenth, he reported her missing to the authorities, and that when the newspaper articles start up again talking about this missing woman and the headlines are are very fun, they say. Tillers resided with friends, accused, killer, missing woman lived with a man acquitted in best friend's death. And then it continues because immediately almost, they they start getting suspicious. Police want remember what's on spicier case. And the next one we see something about We see. It puzzles with her mother. So At this point of this article specifically, I'll link it in the show notes too. It says Bolton's girlfriend missing three weeks. And this was an article in the Hammond the three port times. And it says that the police agency say Joel tell us disappearance is being IT AS A MISSY PERSON'S CASE, BUT THEY ADMIT IT'S NOT A TICKICAL ONE. MARALISSE SAYS HER DAUGHTER'S APPEARANCE IS ANYTHING BUT TYICAL OF HER. Juel's father and I divorced when she was seven. And so Juel and I became really close. She has always called. She never went anywhere without calling, either she was angry even if she was angry with me, she called. And that was the last time on mother's day was the last time that she saw her oldest daughter, and that's when they were headed back to Tennessee. Now the things that she was really confused about was Bolton Ira never called her. Man, that sounds familiar. He never called her to let her know. Didn't it didn't it happen with her? Brenda.
Kyler:Brenda.
Kellye:Now, this article actually mentions the fact that he was charged with Brenda's murder and that Joel and her mother testified at the trial, and that was probably her her testimony, specifically the moms Marla's that her testimony probably provided him with his main alibi. And that Joel had been supportive of him the entire time, and then she switches back gears and says that she hopes and holds out the hope that her daughter will call and she says, quote, I don't feel like Joel is dead, but I can't explain what is happening. It's strange and babbling. I pray and I hold on to hope. And it then it mentions the next few. Shannon, the cousin that's been living up there, and she said that she hadn't told her that they'd had a disagreement about who would take the car, but it seemed to be minor issue. AND IBERTA TOLD THE POLICE THAT HE DROPPED HER OFF WITH THE MALL, SAW HER MAKING A CALL FROM A PHONE BOOZ. HE SAID THAT SHE ASSUME THAT SHE HAD GONE INTO WORK, BUT Tillis' boss says she never showed up. And he didn't report her missing until the next night at seven PM. They contacted all the different close friends that she had. Like I said, the the girl that she was on the phone with the four a in that morning. Two? Yeah. But if if she had a lot of friends, she would remember if she was very you
Kyler:said a lot of friends, like, close friends. Right. How many was she allowed to have?
Kellye:Not very many. I need fewer by the day. And this article starts to give us kind of imagery about what was going on after Joel vanished. Now she was supposed to be at work on the eighteenth, on the nineteenth, you reported or missing that night, and by the twentieth or the 21st. He was out. He packed up everything of theirs, including the the bed the furniture, her clothes, his clothes, everything out of the apartment never said a word to the cousin Shannon and rolled out. He said and Shannon said that the family, his father, came up from Louisiana to help him move his shit out in in, like, overnight style. Just up and out.
Kyler:So almost like they were used to doing shit like this.
Kellye:Definitely another one of the eighteen thousand thread flags is for I wanna say anything is normal or anything isn't normal.
Kyler:But All of this is not normal. I absolutely I will I will for sure say that.
Kellye:That's fine. But if your significant other has gone gone missing, you can't find them. You don't know where they are. And you're hoping that they're gonna be coming back. You have hoped that they'll be coming back. Why would you leave the place where they might come back to? Why would you take all of their stuff and leave nothing there with no way of letting them know that you've taken off with all of their stuff.
Kyler:Mhmm.
Kellye:Because that is one of the biggest things in my mind that stands out like a like a blinking red light in a fog. Like, you can see that bitch from my house.
Kyler:Yeah. Instead of holding on to the beacon of hope that you have
Kellye:She might be coming back this is the last place I saw, or I'm gonna stand right here with flyers until I see her again. She had said that he just goes in one night there when I next and he said that they took all of their stuff. Her her stuff included. Now we're gonna school a little bit. Further, May nineteenth, she was reported in the same. We get into June, still no leads. They're At this point, they're requesting the records on Brenda to see how that happened and see what actually went down with that. Across the river, across the Mississippi and Arkansas unbeknownst to the Tennessee authorities. On June eleventh, there was an unknown body found in the river that was recovered. It was so badly decompose that they couldn't tell anything. They couldn't tell much. Outside of it being a female, they couldn't really say anything else about it. They didn't know the age. They couldn't even guess. They had to send it out to be autopsy eden for the forensics examination because, man, that's just
Kyler:serious. It
Kellye:was it was very badly decomposed. So they also had no way of knowing for sure how she died. Because there was no evident or obvious.
Kyler:So it's kind of blue.
Kellye:You're assuming it could see just so that I could eyes. So they had to send that body out to go get it on top of his nose on June eleventh. So I don't know how to
Kyler:film a year.
Kellye:Almost immediately. Within within about, I would say, twenty four to forty eight hours. Within twenty four to forty eight hours of this body being found you know, it it got picked up pretty quick that this is a possibility of being Joel. Mhmm. Mom commented and said, I I I can't believe that to be true until they let me know for sure. So they actually get her dental records from her mom, and they send that off. And because of the very hot weather, the only way were going to be able to identify this body was by dental? It was she found her body in a ditch. She was a dried out ditch. That literally was on the main highway that came across the river from Tennessee. It was US seventy. And it was less than thirty feet off. Her body was less than thirty feet off the side of the ditch, but because of the heavy foliage, no one ever saw her. Until that morning, I believe someone who was he was either grading or mowing. I think he was doing a yard or driveway nearby and saw something that looked odd. And then reported the body being found over there. So
Kyler:Oh my god. It's a lung.
Kellye:Yeah. I think this the actual place where her body was found was about thirty miles southwest of Memphis. And and, yes, it was her body, spoiler alert. So big And I did talk would you identify the body?
Kyler:Would we really talk about it as long as it wouldn't?
Kellye:No, absolutely not. So June fifteenth, it was actually confirmed that it was her body. So she was missing a total of twenty three days, and her body was found across the river. But still not that far. Like I say, like, it's a big thing. It's not that far. Like I said, it's thirty miles ish from Memphis, which is where they were living at the time. Her body was found in it was wrapped in red sheets and somebody had picked up, like, freshly cut grass and spreaded it across the top of the sheets that her bodies was inside of to try to comfort the body and hide further. Once they actually got her unwrapped from the sheaves, she had underwear, khaki pants, just her bra, goldier rings. Her sneakers were on, and they estimated she had been there about three weeks or almost the entirety of the time that she had been missing. At the time, even though they identified her because the decomposition, they were gonna have to further, you know, examine the body and everything and blood work and such to be able to determine what her actual cause of death was, which was a huge returning factor in where they went from there because it didn't Yeah. Obviously, she didn't put herself in a ditch unless she did. But there was a reason for
Kyler:a movement. Wrapped herself
Kellye:and she's and
Kyler:and Sprint The
Kellye:attorney can put Kohl's in damn near anything. I'm not saying she wrapped herself up in a sheet, but if she got drunk, decided she was gonna take off with just her sheet in her bra on, and then walked off down the road, got drunk, stumbled, and fell. I mean, like, there's a lot of things that she can she
Kyler:she got drunk and stumbled thirty miles. Maybe maybe she got a ride from somebody and she
Kellye:didn't know. Maybe she got picked up by and wanted to hitchhike and try to get across the country to wear her friend, she was going to meet wherever they were. I don't know. But my point is, without a cause of death, without someone forensic forensic experts say, did you happen a good attorney.
Kyler:It would take a hell of good attorney.
Kellye:What my point is unless you have homicide undetermined further investigation or something along those lines on the a death certificate. Most of the time, Moe's office especially back then, Moe's police officers and investigators, and they're not going to continue you know, in-depth investigation into something that they don't even know if there is something to investigate.
Kyler:Right.
Kellye:So they wait for that, and they waited a while. And the entire time Joel's mother and family are just wrecked because at this point, as much and as far a denial as you can possibly be, there is no explanation outside of he murdered her and then dumped her and left her on the side of their road and then let your family suffer for almost a month, not knowing where she was only if find out that she was dead and left like trash on the side of the road. So they were understandably livid, beyond livid. And I'm not sure how miss Bates live with herself as long as she did knowing that her testimony provides did the alibi for the son of a bitch who got off of murder the first time only to turn around and curtled his daughter from her because of the testimony she gave. Can you imagine the racking guilt that she had to have felt and just the regrets on top of that.
Kyler:Selling and I really should pay more attention that fast forward thing.
Kellye:Here's where you guys are gonna get real mad because
Kyler:Well, you said the last time when I got pissed.
Kellye:Nothing happens. I'm talking the rest of nineteen eighty nine.
Kyler:I fucked him out.
Kellye:The rest of nineteen ninety. He moves on with his life. There's a lot of suspicion and during this period is when senior gets all chatty with the papers. And when I say he gets chatty, he says the most pile of things. And all they you know, a lot of these papers, all they wanted to focus on was, oh, he was so well educated. Oh, he was Magna cum Lani from NLU. Oh, he was pre met. Oh, he's got a wealthy family. Oh, he's a valactory in all of his all of his friends, and he was just such gentleman. He was so charismatic. He was they weren't talking to the right fucking people.
Kyler:No. They were being paid to write but they were being paid to write.
Kellye:And Dude, Okay. It's bullshit. No. It is. It absolutely is.
Kyler:Anything ever happened to him?
Kellye:You have to stick around and find out, sir.
Kyler:I've been I have been misled and and trampled on twice now. Mhmm. And I my my heart can't take anymore.
Kellye:Okay. The father is just what I'm trying to find right now.
Kyler:I'd like to pick no more.
Kellye:I didn't pick this. This is a listener suggestion. Do you
Kyler:listener? Just kidding. Now you. There's probably gonna be kets.
Kellye:If a man acquitted in slang suspect again, bolden, the most likely suspect X. When the eventual autopsy came back and that would have been in June of nineteen eighty the end of June. So it was, like, June twentieth. The autopsy stated that the most likely cause of death was death by strangulation. And the only reason that they say that was because of the tissue and I believe the high o eight bone was in all my true crime friends out there. You know, it was a the highway is only ever the most indicative of a straggulation is when that thing is is because it takes a lot of force. It takes a lot of pinpoint pressure to break that little baby bone that's in your neck. So, strangulation was ruled as the cause of death, and then they in to investigate, but here's the thing. They're trying to figure out jurisdiction. Because her body was found in Arkansas, but they don't know where she was actually murdered. Because if she was murdered, it's in a sea then they have to have the jurisdiction. And because that money matters.
Kyler:Oh, yeah.
Kellye:Again, if money matters
Kyler:to sit out another couple times.
Kellye:Because You don't wanna pay for an investigation if it's not their investigation.
Kyler:It's it's not the money, bud. It's not my fault, please. It says money matters. Grab him or jaz parents.
Kellye:By the time they start looking and realizing this was her, this has already been almost a month now. They realize it Joelle, then they had to start looking for a crime scene. They twenty six days later, they're looking at the apartment, which has been completely cleaned out.
Kyler:Oh, yeah. No.
Kellye:They they
Kyler:go not even sloped to the vest. No ball shaver.
Kellye:They go all the way down to Hammond to look at the storage where Joe Egrant. Iraen said that happened all the stuff I I did. I I should I shouldn't miss name him on purpose, but I'm not that much of a bitch. I I cared about people whose names are garbage, the poundage of an assholes, gumbag, piece of worthless, actual garbage you are. But they go down to his house, search through all that stuff, looking for any kind of evidence. But, yeah, this has been almost a freaking month, and he learned better the first time around, like, let's get rid of this stuff. So they're looking for everything and they don't really find a a whole lot now. Yeah. I have no idea why not. No clue. But I wanted some help. There was nothing they could no. No. Nothing at all. I
Kyler:now for your circumstances or
Kellye:Okay. So there were the jurisdictions of thing. They're way behind the ball on trying to find any kind of anything of evidentiary value. Joel's mom is heartbroken, wrecked completely. And there are many articles about why he never call. Why didn't I ever ever called? Because they had such a good relationship. Because, like, that was one of the things I didn't get to mention in the first episode was Eibrin spent more time with Joel's mom than he's hit with his own family because miss Bates was a a home made girl. She was a mother. She wanted, you know, that cute she caring loving atmosphere was always a thing with her in her house. And he latched onto that because he that's not what he had at his home. His home was, you win. You do your best. You do you are the best or you are the worst, and you will be recommended if you were But it's the last. Exactly. So they go in and they're searching the garage at the emboldens down there like I said. And This is another one of those quotes from senior. They were asking them in the article why they didn't go to Joel's funeral or memorial service. And his answer was, well, my wife and I would have gone. I called her mom, but I just wanted to find out some things and express my sorrow, but the next daughter, I don't know her name. She cursed me out, so we didn't feel welcome there. And then another quote when they were talking about the jurisdiction and why it was kind of being held up. They quoted a couple of officers saying that they felt pretty sure, pretty certain that they were going to move the jurisdiction to Tennessee because they believed that the murder actually occurred in the apartment in Memphis. And senior was quoted as saying that, you know, he he he fell short that didn't occur in the Memphis apartment. He said, quote, I'm almost sure that's a lie. By Shannon and Ivern being at home at that time, and besides, the neighbor should have heard something.
Kyler:All of the faith. All of the faith never.
Kellye:All of the why the hell are you so talking? Why why are you so talking? And then it goes June eighty nine, July eighty nine, August, September, October, and then nothing until June of ninety. That's just to say that there's no answer. And it's April of ninety one before anything changes with her murder. With the investigation, everything comes to us all because once they figure around that the jurisdiction should be in Tennessee. Tennessee looks at it and it's just like, you know, there's I can do with this. There's I mean, like, we can't go anywhere with it. We literally have next to nothing. We don't have any evidence because he had plenty of time to clean all of this stuff up. We know he didn't. We know it was him. Obviously, this as a pattern, and and he gets mad. The woman in his life is going to leave him, and so he decides to take it out on the closest freaking victim, the first time it was Brenda, this time it was Joelle. But we still don't have a way to prove it and he got better the second time around. He realized that he dumped that body way too close, so now he's gotta get it further away. So where does he go? Thirty miles down the road across the river different state.
Kyler:Next time, there won't be a buddy.
Kellye:So at this point, Senior keeps talking to the papers. Junior doesn't really make any appearances until a little bit later into, like, the later nineteen nineties. But at this point, Ivern move back to New Orleans Baton Rouge area street port wherever it was. And then eventually makes his way up to of all places, New Jersey.
Kyler:Everything's legal in Jersey?
Kellye:Everything's legal. In Jersey.
Kyler:Take care of all those news in our in that region, we were not riding on Jersey. It's a quote from Amazon.
Kellye:I'm I'm pretty sure most of the people know that. I don't wanna If you don't get it, then you don't need to be listened. So in nineteen ninety one in June, things that already started to kind of roll downhill for Ira at that point, but I'm not gonna get ahead of myself. Earlier in the year of ninety one. He had been dating a new lady love, except this one wasn't like the other one. So in the other situations, he had to chase them. He had to work really hard to keep the attention to keep them interested. Well, this one was way interested. She was giving him all of the attention. Apparently, that's not exactly what he thought he wanted or maybe he was just this level of extra that he was not wrong welcoming because he actually filed for restraining order against her because he couldn't get her out the house. Right. So by the time he filed that was training order and took that out on her.
Kyler:You mean you didn't just kill her?
Kellye:No. We didn't because that was it was it was a different it was a different scenario. If you didn't want her, he didn't want to possess her or control her. He wanted to get the f out. Like, GTFO, please. And no. So she took out a restraining order. Now in the midst of this kind of proceeding, he actually attempted to apply for a concealed weapon, like, he wanted to buy a gun. What you're laughing for? He was acquitted.
Kyler:I'm dead.
Kellye:He doesn't have a felony on his record. He's it's a perfectly acceptable friend, dad, or what? Except it's not. And good on these New Jersey cops because I'm gonna love them right now. I'm gonna hate the attorneys, but I I love the investigators. That's where I'm going with. So the investigator that is going over this background check for Ibrance says, scratches his chin awggy nose on his corn cut pipe. Right? That's what I see in my mind when he says, and he realizes that Ira has been in the middle center of and indicted, but acquitted of at least one murder.
Kyler:And It's
Kellye:the only suspect ever named in the other homicide of both women, you were very closely tied to him. And he was like, you know what? I don't think this is a good idea. I think this is a bad idea, guys. He doesn't let allow him to get a permit for a gun or a weapon. So which was within the legal rights because if you've ever been indicted for a felony, they can tell you So you won't have to actually be convicted, depending on the level of the felony or what the felony was. So, especially, a felony and violence. Anyway, in the course of this happening, he gets curious and he is like, okay. Well, I wanna talk to this lady.
Kyler:I I just wanna talk to her.
Kellye:I just wanna not sure. So they bring her in because they well, they had to bring her in anyway because she broke the restraining order. She broke back into Ibrance house. So she walked right through that restraining honor and but she didn't put him in his intensive care. She showed up. But, anyway, she just wanted to go get some of her stuff. And according to her, when she got to the police station, she said, no. No. No. You guys have gotten it all wrong. I try to get my stuff because I wanna get far away from as possible because he said he killed two women and he'll kill me too if I don't leave him alone. Wait what?
Kyler:What got it. They don't fucking do something like this.
Kellye:What did you? They do. They do. They do sort of. The investigators do a great job. Okay. Because at this point, they got some really, really cool cards in their hand. Right? Because they've got this open investigation into a protective order for hybrid. So have it get him down the station? Hey. Do you wanna come talk to us about that protective order you've got? We we try to figure out what we're gonna do with her in this case. You wanna come
Kyler:and come talk to us? Yeah. Sure. No problem.
Kellye:So he goes out of the station. Sam's lawyer just like the first time, the dumbass. And he goes into the station, he gets to talk in Chatton, and the investigators do what their frame to do. They get him at ease. They put him into a comfortable, hey, we're friends stature. And by the end of that interview, he confesses to to both. Why am I infuriated? Because he cannot be convicted of Brenda's murder because he has already been acquitted. Yeah, guys. You know what I'm you know what's coming?
Kyler:Yeah. We we mentioned this
Kellye:one. Double freaking jeopardy.
Kyler:Oh,
Kellye:no matter. So June of nineteen ninety one, he goes in there and he confesses to both the murder of Brenda Spiser and of Joel TELUS.
Kyler:And yet they still stand around, dicks and hands, nothing they can do.
Kellye:They can do? They they they they lock them up. They extradite him from New Jersey to Tennessee. Actually, I believe they blew up to get him from Tennessee. Pulled him back down and got in there. They guided him on first degree murder. Initially, he wasn't gonna fight extradition. Right? But then he got an attorney. And his attorney fought a tradition. And they went from he was her for his extradition hearing July twelfth. And then it was further delayed until August when he was finally extradited to Tennessee August fifteenth to ninety one. Now they set a no bond because it was first degree murder, a hundred percent within their rights. They got delay after delay after delay after delay. Now it went from August of ninety one until March of ninety two. All of this wrangling. Right?
Kyler:And this is after he's already been actually having?
Kellye:Yep. This is when he got to Tennessee.
Kyler:So we Oh, it's sixty. Tennessee. Has spent eight. But trying to find a market.
Kellye:Yeah. Well, I mean, he's he's been
Kyler:a jailmaker.
Kellye:And he's been a jailmaker. And, like, he's been a jail since he confessed.
Kyler:Oh, yeah.
Kellye:And so that was in New Jersey until August. So he was in Jersey for two months, and then he transferred him from Jersey to Tennessee in August, mid August, and then they kept him in Jersey I'm sorry, in Tennessee from August of ninety one to March of ninety two. And in March of ninety two, it just randomly in the papers appears he has taken a plea deal. Okay. This is where you're gonna get angry, and I apologize in advance, but I am right there with you.
Kyler:You fucking saying that.
Kellye:So listen to this. How many of you know what an Albert plea is? If any of you know anything about them in this three or any of those cases that specifically deal with that.
Kyler:Right now when you need to.
Kellye:Oh my god. I love that one. Frankly speaking. Crazy ass. Story. But anyway, in Alfred plea and and basically anytime we take a plea deal, you are basically waiving your rights to a trial. You're waiving your rights to to to the fifth, you know, all of your basic rights as a criminal, once you get arrested, and indicted, you no longer have those rights. Once you take a pleaded, you can't appeal, you can't, you know, come back and say, oh, I think you've I mean, you could try, but it's usually never gonna work because once you make that deal, you have to say you accept all of those terms. So what happened in an Alfred play, and this is directly from the US supreme court It's named after the North Carolina versus Alford case in nineteen seventy. And in that case, Henry Alford, he faced first degree murder. Now. He could have faced a death sentence as a capital offense if the jury got the guilty goods capital murder. But there was a lot of solid evidence against him, and he was convinced by his lawyer to take a plea. And the prosecutor allowed him to lead to second degree murder, which carried a penalty of two to thirty instead of the death penalty. A lie. Instead of a death penalty, he pled guilty, but said he was not guilty. So he was admitting guilt to avoid the Right. The higher penalty. So the supreme court held that The court could accept a guilty plea based on a voluntary and intelligent choice even if the defendant contains continues to claim innocence. A lot of judges won't do it. A lot of judges will say if you don't say guilty or no contest even. Because it's a lot like a no contest, please, except in a no contest. You're not specifically saying you're innocent, you're just not gonna try to fight. You're not gonna try to prove that you're not, which is in and of itself saying you're guilty. The the difference in this one in the Memphis three case, they were actually freaking innocent and the opera plea wasn't saving their face. It was saving the prosecution's face. It's definitely the DA
Kyler:or ADA. I can't remember which I know what I remember.
Kellye:She was a lower I couldn't deal. So basically, the only way I can look at an hour play is somebody is getting a free pack pass or away, Aleca. This is this is this is our silver platter offer for you. Right? So Did I mention what he was doing in Turkey when he was arrested?
Kyler:No.
Kellye:His current in employment was as a counselor at her children's home? He was counseling children.
Kyler:Okay. That's a good plan.
Kellye:Yep. I asked what he was doing. They finally get him back in front of a judge. He And I I wanna know I wanna know which one of these DA's decided this was a good freaking idea. The only like, even slightest remnants of an explanation was a single quote from one of the assisted DAs that said, well, when we looked at the evidence, we realized that if if we had anything, it would be closer to a second degree murder. Okay. So why didn't you charge him a second degree murder and take into trial? No?
Kyler:This stays better?
Kellye:No. No. You no. Okay. So when you led guilty, the actual article itself, basically did a quick skim because it it was on the front page, but it didn't even, like, continue to another their page. So it covers what happened. It covers her body. It covers her she went missing her body was found, and then then he was eventually in guided, but he could let guilty in an unscheduled hearing. The prosecutor said that the evidence evidence against him didn't support a degree murder conviction, and he said, quote, with all the facts we had, we felt like it very easily could be a second degree murder case. And that's the only freaking thing anyone ever said from the DA's office. The second degree murder would have been at least fifteen and at most twenty five. Which is different than now. In Louisiana, you get taken to your murder. You're going to you're going to go for life, honey.
Kyler:L walk for a second.
Kellye:Mhmm. Really? Yep. Man slaughter, which was what he took the Albert plea to. Okay. He was sentenced to ten years. K? Ten years. He's already been in jail since April. He only has to serve four and a half years to be eligible for parole. That's it. Four and a half years, of which he's already served over a year and a half by the time he took the plea.
Kyler:He said he's dumb.
Kellye:Yeah. I do find a kind of poignant, though, that he was eventually caught One, because he couldn't keep his freaking mouth shut. Two, because the woman he always wanted, somebody who was obsessed with him, who wanted him for ever and only him and gave him all of their attention and time and affection
Kyler:one to the first place.
Kellye:Was the one who ended up taking him down at least initially. So At this point, I'm sure you're wondering, well, what the hell happened to Brenda's case? I know we can't do double jeopardy, but did any or
Kyler:at a young dancing.
Kellye:So here's what had happened. He takes that plea,
Kyler:you know
Kellye:or I'm sorry, not August. He takes the man slaughter plea, and that would be in so that was March of ninety two. He took the operative plea. Ten years, four and a half years to be eligible for probation. No idea why they made this deal with him. No clue.
Kyler:I haven't told you.
Kellye:So Louisiana as a whole is pissed. Because not only did she get away with murdering Brenda at age eighteen was so much of her life ahead of her for doing nothing but existing, really. There is a state of what can we do, what HOW CAN WE MAKE THIS FASTERED PAY FOR WHAT HE'S DONE? LIKE HE NEED JUSTICE. THE FAMILY NEEDS JUSTICE. MARGIA WELL and Brenda both need justice because this four and a half year shit is is ridiculous.
Kyler:For birds.
Kellye:So they start digging and they start looking And I'm sure they had roomfuls of people brainstorming, trying to figure out what they could do because now they're looking at this confession little word for word. I've actually published it in April of ninety one. When he gave his confession, the initial confession was in April. And the the the quote that they put in the paper said the question was because he just asked it kind of out of nowhere to kind of bring her up. And he said, what were the circumstances surrounding the death of missus Biker? Ira says, I went I asked her to come, like, we we had a storage unit, and I asked to come there with me. And then I was trying to talk to her, you know, I had been asking her and asking her to, you know, try to give me some time with your will and she just, you know, she just kept saying that she was gonna be with you alone no matter what. And so I just I I got mad with her and I strangled her. Then the investigator asked him, he said, and where did this take take place at? In storage area? He said, yeah. And he said, Where was that storage area located? Not far from the College Campus in Monroe, Louisiana. He said, okay. Well, after you strangled, or what'd you do? I took her body back to the campus and put her in the dumpster and went back to the game or or I went back to the dorm or something. I don't remember to exactly what they had assumed happened. It actually happened. Mhmm.
Kyler:Imagine that
Kellye:he took Brenda. The gap station owner that saw the tall black man, little white woman standing outside of the storage area, right outside of the freaking area where the locker known to the Ibrance was, watch them go into that one. I mean, like, the guy identified it was a storage locker number one zero three. And that was the one that belonged to Ibrance. That was the one he saw the black man and white woman go into and the white woman he never saw come out. But in fairness, he never saw the black man come either, although he did seat the door closed later in the car gone. Same one. Now they have an actual confession they know it was him. They didn't know what to do. So they work on it. March third of ninety two when he finally pleads guilty because from the time that he confesses, Louisiana has got there
Kyler:They've been pissed for a couple of years now, so they they
Kellye:Everybody Who was anybody especially Joelle's family at this point? Because Joelle's mom now knowing what she knows is is understandably
Kyler:Yeah. Devastated.
Kellye:Completely. There's no other there are I'm having trouble finding a word to put into this because I can't imagine that amount of just
Kyler:sign of the
Kellye:Just The entire earth crushing weight that falls on you when something like that comes out. Like, I vouch for you. I told people you were there. I thought you weren't there. You were you were being played the entire time there. You were used and your daughter was used and then your daughter was used and then thrown away on the side of the road like a piece of garbage because that's how he sees women.
Kyler:Or possibly just people in general?
Kellye:He pleads guilty.
Kyler:Got it. Possibly. He's just a sociopath.
Kellye:On March tenth. Okay. Ten, twelve days later. Louisiana, they filed an indictment on mister Ivan for what?
Kyler:Whatever this came.
Kellye:What is that? So February twenty eighth, he please steal team, or he takes an out for a plane to man slaughter, Mark March tenth, the district attorney, Jerry Jones, in Washington Parrish. Surgery? Files in half of David for an arrest warrant with the parish judge or perjury. Sorry.
Kyler:It took me a minute to get there.
Kellye:Yeah. So I know a lot of you are like scratching your heads. We're gonna get there. Promise. Sorry. That was miss Ki Bin.
Kyler:Because he was acquitted by saying the entire time he was not guilty in a case that he was guilty in.
Kellye:Fucking genius. Yes. Hang on. Fucking genius. Not just that. Because perjury is a very specific statute. Again, another one of those definitions I looked up because
Kyler:Making false statements are on while on on the roads. There's nothing It's
Kellye:it's very specific. Let me let me read it to you in in full. Okay? I don't know. This is getting long winded. I'm trying to do my best. Surgery is the intentional making of a false written or oral statement in or for use in a judicial proceeding or any proceeding before a board or official, wherein said official or board is authorized to take testimony. In order to constitute perjury, the false statement must be made under sanction of an oath or an equivalent affirmation. And how many ants we got? And must relate to matter material to the issue or questioning controversy. So in layman serves, You have to be under oath. In front of an official, it has to be done according to the matter subject matter at hand, and it has to be very specific in perjury, in that specific question of controversy. So specifically about the murder, specifically stated oral or written, but in his case, it was oral. He was before a judge under oath. In front of during a proceeding in which the only matter in which that they're talking about, he purged himself was the direct matter where he said, I did not strangle Brenda. I did not kill her. I did not do those things. And he may have done himself favors in the nineteen eighty eight trial when he took this in in his own defense. Because everything looked pretty thin. But now Yeah. They've come back and said, well, now that you've confessed to this, we know that you were lying on the stand under oath in front of a judge, you're busted. Now, here's a shitty part. No. The maximum sentence for perjury, the highest that you can punish anyone for for committing perjury is ten years. That's it. So By the time, they get him down there in September because they fight the hell out of that extradition too. September of ninety two, he please is not guilty. They delay that trial all the way until nineteen ninety five. Five oh, well okay. So September of ninety two to January of ninety five.
Kyler:No. That's all.
Kellye:So is still two and a half years ish to get him to the end of that one. They changed the venue. They had multiple motions. And when I say they they went through the double jeopardy motions, they went all the way up to the Supreme Court with like six different rits trying to get shit thrown out, trying to get dismissals, trying to do all of that. They actually went into this specific it's called collateral as Stoppel, and it's spelled e s t o p p e l lateral, a Stoppel. I had to Google this one. I've heard it before, never really look into it that hard, but where double jeopardy protects you from being tried multiple times for the same crime, collateral Apple prevents the re litigation of specific issues that has already been decided in a pre in previous legal proceeding. So basically, what they're saying is
Kyler:Just because it's not the same exact crime. He's still being charged with something from that crime.
Kellye:Right. But the judge has already decided was either true or not true. It was either right or wrong. Could not. You can't say now that that statement isn't legitimate because when the jury found out in innocent or they acquitted him, they say that because that acquittal was the same as saying his testimony was true. Now the big problem with that is that the jury didn't find him in a sense. Oh, Okay? So here we go again with these legalese. The jury found him not guilty because the weight of the evidence was not beyond a reasonable doubt. Not specifically ruling that his testimony was true and factual. What they rendered was a verdict saying, you did not prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt based on what we have before us. Not rendering a decision specifically on the issue of whether or not he was being truthful. So in that way and then then when I tell you that this got so many twisted ways to Sunday, My eye started crossing at about the third, fourth, fifth. By the time I actually got to the appeal to the Supreme Court and I was reading all of the different accents because they have, I believe, it's five, and then they had three and two split for the appeal, but it was upheld. But it was just they they found a lot this is a very heavily debated subject because Some feel like it should have been covered. Some feel like they are opening doors for legal wranglings later on down the line. But The discussion the major part of the discussion that I found interesting was that on the one hand, there's the concern that allowing the acquittal to insulate the defendant from perjury. So basically saying that if they're acquitted, that means you can't come back and commit. You can't say that they're going they can't ever perjure themselves because they were acquitted. They're afraid that that would give future defendants an uncontrollable license to testify awdry with a resulting nothing to the reliability of evidence. So, like, if something comes back up later, and proves you wrong, you can't get in trouble forever. So you can just lie as much as you want on the stand. Right? But then you go across to the other hands, there's apprehension that allowing a prosecution to charge for perjury that gives the state like a second shot at the defendant for the same wrong and allow over overzealous prosecutors in the future to use perjury to retry issues that were already to terms in the equivalent. So in this case specifically, though, the thank god one of these foreign authorities finally did rights by the victims in this scenario because They finally did the shit they needed to do. They were prepared. They laid this out in the most perfect fashion without touching anything else. They got they they worked their asses off, very diligent, very thorough. They had a, you know, an answer or bundle, a reasoning, legal reasoning, and and convincing arguments for everything that they presented in that burgury situation. Okay. And they they they they battled for this. And so when this he got to the appeal because he was found guilty of perjury in March of ninety five. And when they finally got to the appeal up at the supreme court. We're not just talking about the circuit court. We're in the supreme court at this point. They said it is clear the state is not attempting to rehash or refine the evidence used in the first trial in order to take a second shot. Rather, the state in good faith has obtained new and additional evidence that was not previously available. And that indicates that the defendant defendant testified falsely under oath during the former trial. Now
Kyler:Why is this why is new and additional why is that important?
Kellye:Because in so much as to say that because of the advancements in science, they have the ability to confirm the DNA. They have the ability to present evidence that was there for the first trial, but not able to be used.
Kyler:Okay. So
Kellye:As evident because of the statement that he gave, they can now corroborate that against the evidence that they already had.
Kyler:So they both gotten entirely new evidence and they're able to use their evidence that they already had in a new fashion or they were able to expound on it or it it became additional evidence in English.
Kellye:Because they had something to hold it up against and say, look, this is what he testified this is what he confessed to, and this is what proves it.
Kyler:Right.
Kellye:This is how we know that his confession is legitimate. And it was nice
Kyler:and bullshit.
Kellye:When I say that they had to tow that line,
Kyler:I was so
Kellye:behind me because they couldn't introduce anything that could call into question the the acquittal. They can ultimately bring into question his perjury, So when it came to talking about the evidence that because they presented pictures, they did all about with the and everything, but they had to be very, very careful.
Kyler:He said this. This is why this is alive, but I'm not talking about this. Right.
Kellye:You're not talking about his guilt as a whole. You're talking about the statement that he made about what he did or did not do. And I'm telling you they work some oh my gosh.
Kyler:No. But you No. We shouldn't. No. They won't. Lose that one.
Kellye:This was the van gogh of perjury case. Oh, my god. Like, the trial that this was, I wish I was there.
Kyler:Like, you and you know that there's no way Louisiana was gonna lose that one. You know what they had to do? You know what they told you?
Kellye:They changed judges. They changed juries twice. I'm pretty sure. Like,
Kyler:we gonna give this one. You all you may you may just look bad.
Kellye:And I think it might look bad, but she literally took the heart out of the especially in Northeast Louisiana at the time. He took a daggers, stuck it right into their heart, twisted around a couple of times, and then dragged it across the state. Like, it it was all full because
Kyler:of the woman There's a repeat on it.
Kellye:Right. And, I mean, if it had not been for a literally what it this comes out to you is one dude. One dude up in New Jersey that didn't like the way
Kyler:I like cut a year gym boy.
Kellye:That's well, then I'll talk about that in Jersey.
Kyler:Damn. I love that for the same.
Kellye:But something fell off to him. He hadn't just convicted. He had a an arrest. He had an indictment, but there was something that didn't sit right with this man. And thank the ever love and goodness that it didn't. And I have pictures that I will post because I'm done, guys. I'm not talking anymore. I'm over it.
Kyler:And she started to smell my skating.
Kellye:And it's late, and I'm tired and I saw it to edit and get this released. But my point is, I will have pictures that came out of Fran Parker who's unfortunately deceased now, but she the novel that she wrote the deadly Triangle, And my plan for my copy of the deadly triangle is to give it away. I just feel like if you want to know more or if you want to read the deadly triangle, let me know. I would be more than happy for this to be something that is like, hey, this is Simalo's copy, pass it around to everybody who wants to read more about it. Also, maybe we can share in our frustrations about this
Kyler:as you have tax on also bring some bring bring along a South Louisiana translator for yourself.
Kellye:Oh, no. It's not even that. We're not that bad down here. I promise. I'm not even actually from here on.
Kyler:I was more sick. Digital Eastern Northern. Digital Northern
Kellye:White similar. She's he's from up here too.
Kyler:She talked about she not.
Kellye:Anyway, so that's that. I I if you are interested in you want to read the book, which you don't wanna spend in any of the extra money, and it was actually kind of able to find. There's really so many problems.
Kyler:South Louisiana still though you
Kellye:Yeah. But you
Kyler:hard to understand sometimes.
Kellye:So If you're interested, let me know. Give me an address, PO Box, whatever. I will mail that out to you along with a couple of little goodies. That would be great. And if just if you want to read that and you can do it on my email, you can do it on my TikTok, whatever. However, I'll post it all over the place along with some of our cool new gear that we've got for our patreons that we just buy. I see. I'm excited. Super excited. And we should have hats and Oh. What's the other one? The coosings? I don't remember. Yeah. They're in they're they're in the they're in the the process. All didn't. Right.
Kyler:A white hat.
Kellye:Now I can't keep look, I have to do the backwards for you because I can't give you a white hat. It's never gonna work.
Kyler:Oh, yeah. No.
Kellye:Yeah. No. So long story short, and this is the part that I'm gonna leave you guys with because it sucks real real bad. He was convicted of part jury. He was given ten years consecutive to the ten years from Jersey, but four and a half years with good time and the statute does not allow for it to be served without benefit. So basically, as much as the judge wanted to, he couldn't say hard time, straight time. So unsure when Ivan Bolton junior was released, but he was released. Not only was she released, but he as of yesterday, the last time I checked, I didn't see no obituary. So he is still alive. And not only is he alive, but as of May twenty ninth two thousand eleven, He has married a missus Marshall, Shentel, Smith, Barnes, now, Bolton.
Kyler:So what we what we can is extrapolating this is that you are full of bad decisions. This is another one.
Kellye:This is another really. Like, she made it out of at least two other ones. Maybe she'll make it out of this one. The part that blows my mind, and this will never cease to amaze me. This man has been convicted of for sure, he has been convicted of one murder. The second one he was acquitted of, but later purgered himself. So keep pur his perjury conviction skinned from the fact that he lied about murdering a woman. Strang manually strangling.
Kyler:Both of them.
Kellye:Two women, one of which he was in a relationship ship was for six years, strangled them to death. The life he watched the life fade from then.
Kyler:But watched and felt.
Kellye:And who knows what he did to Brenda while she was alive and I don't want to know what he did at her after she was dead. And Joel in the same fashion, like, I I I'm glad we don't know. But what kind of woman looks at him and he's like, you know what? I think this is a good idea. This is a great plan.
Kyler:Hey, you got enough money. Dude, that shouldn't still be walking? I well, hey. I I can't. Alright. Get it.
Kellye:I will never understand. But this is also the reason why I said earlier that, like, he's probably if he's anything, he's more five than gay because he eventually did get married. But then again, he may have just been using that the cover. I don't know. What I do know though
Kyler:is his parents would have disowned him. Still toxic. Absolutely. Yes. And he can't he can't survive without them.
Kellye:That's a fact. But also, none of this shit is right. No. They failed. The college failed. Her teammates and her coach. As as good as they could have been, they failed Brenda. They did not do right by her to save the face of themselves. Is that and I think in the in the times that we are in now, I don't feel like that same thing would happen. I feel like there's at least one to two people in every group of people regardless of how much money you have, regardless of how much fame you have, regardless of how much damage it might do to whoever's or whatever's reputation, I feel like there's at least one or two that would stand up for the right thing, that would say something, that would do something. And I feel like it may have been different had it happened now. My conscious would not allow for me to know that I could have made a difference or the possibility that I could have made a difference? Not a distinguishing factor. I wouldn't be able to live with myself, and that in and of itself is enough reason for me because I have to be okay with myself at the end of the day because I fuck anybody else's opinion. If I can't sleep or live with myself. If I can't close my eyes at night and know that I've done everything that I possibly can to be the best human I can be that gonna bother me. It might not bother some people. We call those sociopaths, but but it does me. And that's what would be the determining factor for me. It would be an easy decision. Fuck all that. I mean, it would not be hard for me to be to to come board to be that person. And I know there were a few that dropped like the witnesses that came forward, the people who tried to say, no, he wasn't there. I know he wasn't there, but they had too many people who were willing to say otherwise, to try to cover it up, to try to make it seem not like it was, to try to make the entire team wear dresses and look more feminine, so they didn't look like a bunch of yeah. So justice was not
Kyler:No. You just ran
Kellye:not given. Justin was not
Kyler:Which is it?
Kellye:There is no finality to this for me. He's still alive. He's still out there living. He's still and he's still allowed to enjoy the the danger of things
Kyler:of life
Kellye:and grow old and get to get married and get to enjoy
Kyler:Not being strangled.
Kellye:Oh, being locked. And being free and being able to experience and grow and laugh and whatever the hell he wants to do and hopefully not hurt her again.
Kyler:Yeah.
Kellye:But Fully capable. He's not aged out yet.
Kyler:I'm just saying, most people have possession of aged out.
Kellye:Not true. He's not even sixty.
Kyler:No. I don't know. I just know. Yeah. He act like he's supposed to be old dirt, but then you look like he bought strong his seal.
Kellye:Yeah. So this is about we are over two hours of full time right now, Kayla. So I apologize, and I love you. How are you? I knew this was gonna be hectic and it was gonna be a lot because I there was just some freaking lunch. And if you wanna talk or if you wanna read the book, let me know. I will get it to you here. Look forward to that package coming in soon. I just found the freaking spot where it gives me your address on there I don't even need you to write me back. I got it. Boom. So I was sitting out shortly. I might even be able to get it out tomorrow. Honestly, I've I've go to work, and if the post office guy comes to my office, I'd be able to do that. Anybody else? You can go to our website, got links for everything. The TikTok, the YouTube, the Patreon, the Twitter slash x. I've got episode blogs that has extra little tidbits and pictures. Not the full scope of what I put on the Patreon, because the Patreon gets literally everything. And in some, I'm going to I keep up with it a little bit more consistently now because I've been keeping up with the more widely open and free social postings and things because that's where everybody's at. And I'm going to continue to do that, but I also am gonna keep more consistent track on the Patreon as well. So Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for sticking with us through this, and we are going to take next week off. And then we'll come back normally schedule programming. And as of right now, I don't think I have any more specific listener suggestions. So, send those in. Give me your I got two weeks. You know what I can do in two weeks? I can make a whole murder board. Twice. Thank you guys so much. You're amazing and awesome. And I appreciate the support, and I appreciate you guys listening. I have every other week or every week depending and sharing and liking and following. And if we get enough subscribers on my YouTube or on our YouTube channel for the cinema podcast. I can actually start live shows or live casting when we do the podcast recordings sometime in the future. We can stream live and interact and talk to you guys and do stuff like that, which I think would be really freaking bright, especially in cases like this when you so much two eggs. And I've got a couple other cases that are like that that I think would be really excellent for a live show. So I would be a thousand million percent down for that. So keep listening, keep sharing, keep oh, oh, we had more reviews too, but I'll cover that on our bonus episode later on Apple Podcasts. So thank you guys for that. I appreciate every single one of them. I think we're up to ten whole previews now. Appreciate you guys. Make sure you check us out on Goodpods, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, anywhere you can the podcast and like us, share us, tell your friends about us, and come back and listen to us later. Thank you so much for everything, guys. You're awesome and stay some awesome and stay safe out there.
