CenLAw
Kellye, the true crime enthusiast, and Kyler, her willing partner, delve into intriguing cases from Central & Northeastern Louisiana.
From small-town cases to nationally known crimes, they bring you stories that hit close to home, always with that Louisiana connection.
Tune in bi-weekly for your true crime fix and support their show for a shout-out in the next episode.
Stay safe out there!
CenLAw
Uncovering the Unfathomable - The Lewis/Tennessee Case ft. The Uncle of the (un)Solved!
Strap in because despite the grim nature of this journey, our exploration is also a celebration of life - honoring the profound impact Frederick had on his community. We encourage you to engage in our discussion on various communication platforms, sharing your thoughts and preferences. In the midst of tragedy, we remember that every story, every life, holds a lesson worth learning and sharing. Tune in, listen and remember as we navigate through this deeply moving narrative.
Sources:
- https://www.knoe.com/content/news/Two-charged-with-first-degree-murder-after-Concordia-Parish-shooting-511738032.html
- https://www.wlbt.com/2019/06/24/two-charged-with-murder-after-natchez-teacher-year-killed-la/
- https://www.wlbt.com/2019/06/26/loved-ones-remember-natchez-school-teacher-who-was-shot-death-dumped-la/
- https://www.newsweek.com/louisiana-frederick-mccray-jr-teacher-killed-murder-concordia-parish-jimmy-lewis-cedrick-tennessee-1445946
- https://www.hannapub.com/concordiasentinel/news/local_state_headlines/tennessee-gets-life-for-mccray-murder/article_d7fad066-664d-11eb-a997-a721b8423ca5.html
- https://www.natchezdemocrat.com/2019/06/24/natchez-school-teacher-killed-2-charged/
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All🎶created by: Uncle Sawyer
On the morning of June 23rd 2019, a family's world was turned upside down when their loved one never returned home after a night partying with his crew. He was a beloved teacher from Natchez Mississippi and he seemingly had vanished without a trace. What follows is a heartbreaking journey through suspects, deception and the tragic loss of a young man destined for greatness. Join us as we unravel the events leading to his untimely death and explore the dark twists that turned a missing person's case into a chilling homicide investigation. On today's episode of Sin Law. Hello and welcome back to this episode of Sin Law. I'm Kelly.
Uncle Sawyer:And I'm Uncle Sawyer.
Kellye:All right, that's much better. And that is Uncle Sawyer of the Unsolved. So today we're going to do a little bit different because technically this one is solved. We will know who did it by the end. But I figured I could present it to you and see if you can kind of work your way through it to get to where it ends up. What do you think?
Uncle Sawyer:It was Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick.
Kellye:No, wasn't it Plum with a knife in the arcade? I don't remember. Anyway, I hope everybody had a wonderful Thanksgiving. As you could tell, we played some Clue and some other family games and ate a lot and then ate a lot of leftovers and then slept a lot or I did, I slept a lot. So I hope everybody had a wonderful holiday. Sorry about not getting a bonus episode out to y'all last week. It's been busy, I've been tired, so hopefully I'm going to get another or get a bonus episode recorded and get that out for next week, because you guys crushed it in November. Thank you guys for listening, but you don't like to do any of this stuff at the beginning of the actual full episode, so we're going to go ahead and jump right in. I'll tell you. Are you ready?
Uncle Sawyer:As always, yes.
Kellye:Okay, okay, all right. So today we're going to be going not too far back. This is only in 2019. And this story I'm actually going to tell you all about the victim first, because I feel like it's really important to talk about him, because he was, it was. You know, any loss of life is bad, but this kid and I say kid because I believe he was he was only 27 years old. Okay, keep that in mind as I tell you a little bit about him here. His name was Frederick McCray Jr, and they called him or he went by little Fred, and he was originally from Clayton and he did really well in grade school and continued furthering his education after high school by completing two bachelor's degrees as well as two master's degrees at 27. And you wonder what the hell you done with your life, huh?
Uncle Sawyer:No, not really.
Kellye:I know what I done, all right. So he had just finished his first year of teaching eighth grade at the technology foundations at Morgantown Middle School in Natchez and he was actually named teacher of the year as one of the 10 teachers in the 2018-2019 year to receive this honor. So his first year of teaching and he got teacher of the year.
Uncle Sawyer:Somebody's trying hard.
Kellye:I mean like, and he's trying hard and he's killing it.
Uncle Sawyer:Well, yes, he already made some people jealous, so I'm gonna go down that way first.
Kellye:Well, let's just stick around and find out. Don't make too many, don't don't jump ahead with assumptions, All right.
Uncle Sawyer:You just literally told me to solve it.
Kellye:Yeah, but I'm just telling you about his background. So, according to family and friends and his fellow teachers, he was an absolute joy to be around and he related really well to his students and I mean I guess that makes sense since how he's still young himself, obviously. But I mean it was his first year of teaching and he got teacher of the year. That just blows my mind. He's got two bachelor's, two master's teacher of the year all within just 27 years of life and it saddens all the heartbreak for what he could have been and what he would have become and how many kids he would have helped on their eventual life journey.
Uncle Sawyer:It just it breaks my heart a little bit, so technically you only accomplish those things you said in under 10 years.
Kellye:Right, so that's even more impressive.
Uncle Sawyer:I was just saying.
Kellye:Yeah. So I mean, as you could tell, this man was obviously born to teach and he just dropped the mic and I mean, if he put it on the table and say I got the biggest one in the room and thank you, I mean obviously he, just he knew what he was doing, he did, he did it well and, tragically, we'll never know how far he would have gone and what, what, what all he would have accomplished. So a little bit of background on him, and now we're going to get to the heavier part of the story. All right, so let's strap in, All right.
Uncle Sawyer:So strap on. Don't get confused, not that one.
Kellye:Let's not get it twisted. So on the night of June 22nd 2019, little Fred and his younger sister had gone to a Mardi Gras crew party. Now, that's a crew with a KREWE. Do you know what that is?
Uncle Sawyer:Oh what I'm sorry.
Kellye:KREWE the Mardi Gras crew. Krewe, it's Louisiana specific. Yeah, you know what that is.
Uncle Sawyer:It means they get on a float.
Kellye:Kind of they, they, they, they form like a group and they do fundraisers and stuff to be able to do stuff for I think I'm pretty sure.
Uncle Sawyer:Is one of their things, helping the literacy.
Kellye:Maybe I don't know, I don't think so. It's more like a party thing, so everybody gets together. They had their crew that all donate some money and they do fundraisers to be able to go do fun stuff.
Uncle Sawyer:So they pay a little bit of money so they can all group up and get drunker and shit.
Kellye:That's right Down, bourbon.
Uncle Sawyer:Street on the float, that's right.
Kellye:And that night on yeah, and on June 22nd that that night they had actually gone to a party or fundraiser for his Mardi Gras crew and that was in Feride. And then later he and his younger sister drove. He drove her to her house and then to their mother's house around 1 am. So now it had transitioned over into the 23rd and when they got to his mom's he didn't stay very long. He decided he wasn't really done enjoying his night. He still wanted to go out and get his party on, keep going, and he said he might go ahead and head over to another party. And they vaguely remember, or it was thought, that he said that he might be headed towards Natchez. So he drove off into the night in his 2012 Black Audi with the vanity license plate Big Daddy, and he made his way to one party or another and then around 3.30 he sent his mom the last text that his mom ever got from him and said that he was on his way home. But he never made it back to his house.
Uncle Sawyer:So that's what we got so far and we're not for sure where exactly he went after he dropped off his sister at his mom's, but Okay, anybody who lives in the area around Natchez knows that if you're going out on a night on the town or party or anything like that, you're going to two or three places in Natchez until they close.
Kellye:Right, but they don't even know if you got all the way to Natchez, because there was a lot of parties going on that night, specifically because of the Mardi Gras stuff.
Uncle Sawyer:Right, but still, even then, you'd still Still. Everybody goes to.
Kellye:Yeah, there's a couple places where people congregate, yeah.
Uncle Sawyer:And even if it is a private party or something like that, it's still going to be out and about.
Kellye:Right, right, and I know many people nights, they would literally bounce from one of each of the locations. They'd stay at one for like an hour see who all was there. If nobody was there that they were whatever vibing with, they'd go and check the other one out and then they'd literally just do like musical chairs of the different spots all night long until it got late enough, and then they'd just stay at Andrews.
Uncle Sawyer:Right, yeah, and then they'd just do everything Once the place they really wanted to be at closed. Everybody goes to Andrews, that's right, that's right. And then they start fighting.
Kellye:Hey, that's what it's good for, but they do end up with a lot of cop calls because everybody's already drunk by the time they get there. So, anyway, anyway.
Uncle Sawyer:Yeah, imagine having to bounce for that place. Right, right, it sucked.
Kellye:So, regardless of all that 3.30 AM he sent his mom a text. Never made it home. Now, later that morning, when his sister realized that he hadn't made it home and she tried to get in contact with them, she didn't get an answer. She talked to her siblings, other family members they all tried to contact him said they didn't get anything back. They decided to track his phone, handy dandy location services.
Kellye:So they pulled that up and they realized that his phone was still on and they saw the location was not far from the first party that he and his sister had gone to the night before. So they obviously thought something was a little bit off because they were like, okay, wait, he wasn't going back to that one he was supposed to, he was going to a different party, we left that one already. So they feel a little uneasy and they head out to the location where they have his phone on their location services and they contacted law enforcement and told them everything they knew and actually rode to the location and told the officers where that location was so they could meet them there. Right, that's how uncomfortable they felt with the whole thing and upon arrival there must have been some relief in the family because they didn't find anything but the phone. So officers retrieved the phone and they got the passcode from the family to unlock it, and that's when they got their first break in the case. So what do you think? They found? Uncle Sawyer on the phone.
Uncle Sawyer:Probably a video, maybe a text message or two.
Kellye:A little more simplistic than that. Actually Just a picture. No Little Fred's bank account had actually had a couple of alerts as to suspicious activity on his bank cards at the Walmart in.
Kellye:Notches, oh that's more simple, because that would have been on your notification screen. All you have to do is look down and then you've got suspicious activity. That's one of the first things they see. So they're like, okay, well, this is a hell of a lead, because the time for these notifications was after 3.30. So they were like, okay, well, maybe it was him, maybe it wasn't. Even if it was, that'll at least give us an idea of maybe where he went or where he was at whatever time to get the road started to get going on the case, because obviously the Walmart in Notches is going to have video. We're in 2021. Remember, this is just a couple of years ago.
Kellye:So, using the security footage, they tracked down their first lead, hoping to still try to figure out where Little Fred was. So the footage actually showed the identity of a man named Ronald Riley and they immediately put out like an APB and he actually got wind that they were looking for him. So he contacted them and met them to do the interview. Like he straight up came to the cops and was like, hey, y'all, y'all said y'all needed to talk to me. Here I am.
Kellye:So while he was being interviewed, he admitted that he had gotten the card from a Mr Cedric, tennessee, and when Mr Tennessee had come to his apartment that morning he gave him the card in exchange for allowing him to use his shower and to change his clothes. So luck would have it that Ronald Riley actually still had the clothes that Cedric had taken off when he had showered that morning. So he gives the cops those clothes and they are still trying to figure out where Little Fred is. And Ronald Mr Riley has absolutely no idea. He had no idea whose actual card it was. I mean, there was probably a name on it, but he had no idea anything of the circumstances, of what may or may not have happened.
Uncle Sawyer:What was?
Kellye:the name again Ronald Riley.
Uncle Sawyer:You a black guy.
Kellye:Yes, I know him. Yes, I know him. Anyway. So in the course of the interview he states he believes that Little Fred is dead and he said he may know who did it and where they left the body. So this is kind of rolling full steam ahead but him rolling up to the cops and be like hey, I want to talk, I'm sorry, I didn't have nothing to do with this. That kind of gives you the idea that he knows what's up. He knows something bad is about to happen or somebody's going to get in a lot of trouble, or something bad has happened and he didn't want to part of it.
Kellye:He wants to try to keep his hands as clean as possible, even though he did try to use the card at the Walmart store. So he says. According to court records, he told the investigators that after Tennessee came to his apartment, they left together to go wash the car, which happened to be a 2012 Audi. Now, as they were washing the car, he said that they stopped and took off, or, before they went to wash the car, they stopped and took off the vanity plate that said Big Daddy and threw him off on the side of the road. Then they went ahead to the car wash and then he said that he was helping clean it when he saw the cards in the door of the vehicle and then he helped himself. So he kind of changed from a little bit from the beginning to the end and it was kind of unclear as to whether or not it was more of just like a well, you can keep those for helping me out or whatever kind of deal.
Uncle Sawyer:Or payment for using a shower.
Kellye:Yeah, and the way he made it sound was that at times he made it sound like Tennessee knew he had the cards, other times it was like he didn't. So that was a little unclear. But again, it's kind of irrelevant because they look at the video cameras from the car wash itself and then they can actually see them pulling in without the vanity plates in the Audi and they verify that they were there, and so his story is pretty well keeping in line with what evidence that they can find so far. So he told the police also that Tennessee told him that he got the truck as part of a quote a whole lick unquote and he was going to try and sell it, which is why they needed to clean it, and that they that while they were cleaning, mr Riley noticed some pools of wet blood inside the vehicle and what he said looked like old blood on the outside. He told the police that Tennessee told him that Tennessee and a man named Jimmy O'Neill Lewis tried to rob Little Fred and during the robbery Little Fred was subsequently shot and that they had left his body in a ditch. So at this point officers changed gears. They are now no longer looking for a person, they are looking for a body and they are looking for his killers.
Kellye:So he told the police that all that information sorry, and that he didn't have any idea where they were at this point, like they had left. They had gone separate ways. He walked away from the. He didn't even ride out of the car wash with Tennessee, he just walked away from the car wash. So at this point they are about to start digging in with the help of Project NOLA. They are all up in badges. They love them. Some license plate readers, they love them, some live cameras that they can access from their little center down in the LSU campus. So they helped stir the interview. The story that was given by Riley Corrobberate that's the word I was looking for, corrobberate I even have that in my notes, I don't know why. I just didn't say it.
Kellye:I don't have notes, I know, because you don't know nothing, not just kidding. So they get the evidence to corroborate the testimony or the statement. And that actually became super essential later because he ends up being charged with some things and he takes a plea or yada, yada, yada, so, riley, because he did use the credit cards at the Walmart. So you know they still had charges they were going to pin putting against him, but the video surveillance, you know, corroborating his testimony and his statements, extremely helped him. Like, if not for that it would have basically been a he said she said me against you story. So it worked out really well in his favor. So now, based on their footage they received from Project NOLA, who had been scrubbing their camera for the sightings of the Audi with the vanity plates from the time that little Fred went missing or the time that they got the last text message at 330. So they start there and they go, you know, looking at everything that they can find, and they actually see the vehicle had entered the holiday apartment complex with the tags in place. That's where Riley got in with Tennessee and they left there. So Riley got picked up at the holiday apartment complex and then they drove off. But by the time they made it to the car wash, the plates were gone. So 100% corroborating and making it making it seem like Riley being as truthful as he knows how to be.
Kellye:So, based on the limited information that they got from Riley, they begin an intense and immediate search, all the while they're doing the video scrubbing and everything, trying to figure out exactly what happened or if they can backtrack and see where little Fred was still in the vehicle or what had happened. So, unfortunately just after daylight the next day, on the 24th. So all this had happened the night of the 22nd, the morning of the 23rd. This is now the 24th, just under right under a day, so right under 24 hours after being reported missing, they found the body of 27 year old Frederick McCrae Jr dead by a single gunshot wound to the back of his head. He was located face down in a ravine, having been dragged on a ditch and then covered with sheetrock and other debris that were found in the ditch to conceal his body. So at this point they've recovered the body. They're working that crime scene there, trying to get all of that tagged photo and processed.
Kellye:They immediately issue both Cedric Tennessee and Jimmy O'Neill Lewis uh arrest warrants and they were picked up within a day. They didn't have a lot of trouble finding them. They eventually tracked um Cedric down Tennessee down to a place in New Orleans and they brought him back to Concordia Parish and Jimmy Lewis. He tried to like hide in some abandoned buildings off in um I think it was in ferrity, if I'm not mistaken and he tried to like hide out from them. And then finally he just gave up. He either got cold or hungry or something and decided to go ahead and just come on out. So um.
Uncle Sawyer:Do we have any more detail on the location of where he was found? Um not where he was left, dumped Um actually, yes, I do.
Kellye:Can you just one second?
Uncle Sawyer:here I will, just so we can get a perspective of where he was left, from where he from where he was last known to have been.
Kellye:Absolutely, I can do that for you. Good question. Okay, so he was actually found near an embankment across from the ferrity mill yard. So he was actually found in ferrity.
Uncle Sawyer:The opposite direction of.
Kellye:Even that is right, so well. They left the party in ferrity and went to their mom's house and the mom's house was in ferrity. So either he had gone and come back and made it that back close or he had never got out, or oh no, but obviously he got out and gone somewhere because he was out and about till 3.30. He left his sister after a little after 1.30. So he had been doing stuff for at least two hours before he said he was headed home and he almost made it back home, apparently. So, and it was actually Riley that gave them that little bit of information of the. He said that it would be near the mill yard. So they actually used some of the victim's jewelry. He had a bracelet and a ring on that were easily identified as little friends, but as much as many stories and as many podcasts as we have now.
Kellye:I think this is episode 14. Not all of them have been in Concordia or Cahdhula, but like for a smaller place, as this is in my mind like it's not Houston, it's not even Tombaul, like it's very, very much on a smaller scale. But I still, even with all the crime and stuff that we cover for these parishes, I still don't think there would have been more than one missing person that would fit that, like you know, identity or that, those description in that, in that time frame you know what I mean we have a lot of murder and crime and all that good stuff, but I don't think we'd have enough for it to be like well, I don't know which guy this is, that's five foot seven and you know so that's more probably just like a right flag thing you know, paperwork sort of thing.
Uncle Sawyer:You have to do it.
Kellye:No, no, absolutely. And I mean it's important to be able to do so and you know that's a good way to be able to quickly identify. But I'm sure they still have to go back and do forensic identification or the family identification. But they're notably and this was from the court documents that I read on the autopsy side, he, because he had been there since the the morning of the 23rd and they didn't find him until the afternoon evening of the 24th. What did I just say? Yeah, so it was just after a day, so he had been there.
Uncle Sawyer:And this is in June in Louisiana, so humid hot, disgusting soup bowl, everything to decompose under sheetrock in a ditch, yeah, no every possible thing that could go right for something to decay, and it does in that.
Kellye:Yeah, so that was probably another reason why it was noted that they identified the bracelet and the ring on the on the body there. So, and like I said, they within a day and that's the information that I have Let me see if this says anything different from when they picked him up. He's hiding in abandoned buildings and then he later surrendered.
Uncle Sawyer:So if he was innocent, had nothing to do with it, why was he hiding out?
Kellye:Yeah, that's exactly. That's a great question. That's a great question. And so far we don't know anything about Jimmy Lewis. The only thing we know so far is that Riley got into a car, took a debit card from the car, helped clean out the car that obviously had wet blood in it, and that was only with Tennessee. That wasn't. That didn't have anything to do with Lewis. Now, when Riley is talking in his interview and making his statements, at some point I guess he mentions Lewis, or maybe they were just known to. No, no, okay, so it's obvious. Okay, I'm gonna take it back. The information received by other deputies and this is according to the appeal document online information received by other deputies indicated that Jimmy Lewis was possibly involved in the shooting and then they were told where he might be and that's when they went to the abandoned buildings and he later surrendered himself. So they were both booked.
Kellye:Cedric Tennessee and Jimmy O'Neill Lewis were both booked on first degree murder charges, although if y'all pay attention to this podcast, even a little bit, y'all know that the majority of the time it gets bumped back to second degree, and we covered that on a different episode. Actually, the reason that they do that, which I asked a district attorney about it and they said because, especially in cases like this, when it's pretty well himed up that the likelihood of a second degree murder, guilty charge or guilty found guilty the conviction that getting to the Supreme Court and getting overturned is slim to none. Every first degree murder conviction goes to the Supreme Court default. So instead of taking that chance because you're still gonna get live without parole, you know you get no benefits. I mean, if you're convicted of second degree murder, you're done for. The only hope you have is on appeal and you know like an orange peel, banana peel.
Uncle Sawyer:What kind of peel?
Kellye:What is it? A facial peel.
Uncle Sawyer:Why are we talking about facials?
Kellye:I don't know. That's just what I've. That's what I've. They do the mask, peel mask, anyway. So they're both under arrest. They take them and they're go take them to do their their interviews, right? So we're actually going to start, because we don't know a whole lot about Mr Lewis. We're going to start with him. So he was initially. He initially, in his first set of statements he initially denied any involvement. But you know, after a little bit of wearing down and it didn't take a whole lot I watched portions of these he tried to deny until he died, but then he realized that if he didn't say you know I was there but I didn't do it, that he was going to go down, just as hard.
Uncle Sawyer:He's going to implicate himself in that way.
Kellye:Right. So he ultimately confessed, and he actually confessed to shooting little Fred, but he was insistent that this wasn't something that he had planned to do, at least in his first interviews. They wasn't Rob him. Yes, that that's. That was what he had planned to do, but not to kill him. He said that Tennessee was constantly talking about man, I need some money, man, we need to go hit up a place, we need to hit a lick, I need to, we need to get some money, we need to get some cash. And that when they saw little Fred driving by, they waved him down and asked him for a ride.
Kellye:Now, this is very this is again. We're talking about statements made by people who are convicted of second-degree murder. First-degree murder at this point, but it's grain of salt. They're going to be self-serving. We've learned this as well. So when he says this, he says that little Fred knew Tennessee and actually called him Uncle Sid. So Little Fred called Cedric Tennessee, Uncle Sid. So Little Fred and Uncle Sid. And that's why Little Fred pulled over and actually agreed to give him a ride at that time of the morning, Because they knew each other, Because they knew each other, or at least he knew Tennessee. He, you know, doesn't make it clear 100% that he knew him other than just like in passing or that he knew of him, you know. But he, you know, obviously he had a close enough relationship Little Fred did with Tennessee because he had the nickname Uncle Sid.
Kellye:So Jimmy Lewis said he sat in the back seat and Tennessee rode in the passenger in the front. And at some point Lewis said that he needed to pee and he asked Little Fred to stop off so he could pee on the side of the road. And in his first version he says when he got back that Tennessee and Little Fred were tussling or like slap, you know, slap, hands sliding whatever Kind of like no, get off me, man, get off me, you know, kind of thing, and that Tennessee was trying to get money from Little Fred but Little Fred was pulling up, putting up a fight and winning. So Lewis, he said, he told Little Fred he was like chill out, man, chill out. And then, when he didn't, he put the gun to the back of his head and pulled the trigger. He said that he also alone dragged him out of the car and down in the ditch and then attempted to conceal it with the debris that was already in the ditch.
Kellye:He said that then he walked away from the scene just with the gun in his hand and left Tennessee with the truck or the car at the Audi, and that Tennessee took off and he hadn't seen him since then.
Kellye:And law enforcement actually later recovered the shoes that he was wearing and they did find the victim's blood on them and the 40 caliber Glock that he had identified himself Lewis did. Lewis identified the weapon and they found that weapon as well, and it was verified to be the one that was used to kill Little Fred. Now his trial started in November of 2020 and after three days the defense called no witnesses, so he did not testify, he did not get on the stand and it was only 18 minutes of deliberations that ended on November 10th 2020, with Jimmy O'Neill Lewis being convicted by a unanimous jury of first degree I'm sorry, second degree murder and sentenced to life without probation, parole benefit, suspension and sentence. So now that we're done with him, we're going to move on to Uncle Sid, and this is where it gets kind of all kind of crazy. Now I also have asked the question why would they go to trial, why would they say not guilty and to go all the way through a trial if they gave a full, freaking confession right.
Uncle Sawyer:Prolonging it so they could sit comfy.
Kellye:Well, the answer I got was why the hell not? They don't have to pay for their attorney, their indigent, so they get public defenders. So why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't they do it and see if there is some you know off the wall holding one you know, hail Mary pass that somebody doesn't want to convict them. So why not take that chance, which makes sense, I guess, even if you have your own confession and that's the only you know, the only story that they get from the convicted, or from the, from the suspect, from the defendant I guess at that point he would be so.
Uncle Sawyer:I mean, unless he's going to dig another hole for himself somehow.
Kellye:Right, maybe and then. But see, the thing with this one is he. I don't know why he didn't try to, or his lawyer didn't, and I don't even know who his lawyer was, honestly but why they didn't try to do some kind of plea deal arrangement, something to be able to testify. I mean, I understand, because he was the one who pulled the trigger. I get that he was going no matter what. So they're not going to give him any kind of benefits because he's the one who actually committed the murder itself.
Kellye:And this is the part that is interesting for me is what they are charging, and you know they've also charged Cedric Tennessee with second degree murder, even though he didn't pull the trigger.
Kellye:However, if you are complicit in the act of a robbery where someone gets murdered, or if you're complicit in the kidnapping, or if you're, you know of it and didn't stop it and reported all of those things, like we anybody listening, most of you listening you know this already because you know we are two crime fans Like this is stuff that we know.
Kellye:If you are there when something happens and you didn't do anything to stop it, or you knew about it ahead of time, you know there's all of these little little things, you are just as guilty as if you had pulled the trigger. So that's basically what they're doing now to Uncle Ced. So, tennessee, he goes through and he never confesses to wanting to even rob Little Fred or that he had ever planned to do so at any point. At the interaction, he said that he didn't know what was happening until it happened. He even later told an investigator for his defense that he didn't want to get shot and even use his prosthetic leg. Yes, you heard me right, he has a prosthetic leg. That's where he used to keep his drugs. That is directly.
Uncle Sawyer:Oh, he must have been the one that always drove across the street in ferrity in a wheelchair.
Kellye:I don't know Every day. No, he, he walked around. He walked around, but he has a prosthetic leg. And there's another guy actually in jail right now. He's got rough charges or human trafficking stuff, but he also has a prosthetic leg and the last time he got booked in they actually found like eight grams of stuff in his prosthetic leg, which I thought was pretty hilarious. But anyway, he took it off and was going to use it like a weapon as a way of saying I'm like no, I'm sorry, that's, that's wrong.
Kellye:I was thinking of a different story. He took his leg off as a way of saying like, hey, I'm not going to do anything, I only got one leg. But then he did also kind of confess to the fact that he took advantage of the situation and took off with the car and was going to sell it to make money. So a little bit of column, a little column B, like I didn't kill him, but I'm gonna take his car after he did, because I know it's expensive and I can get some money for it real quick. So since Lewis confessed to being the man behind the trigger, his charges were subsequently dropped to second degree, like I said, and he was taken a trial and just a month after he was convicted, jimmy Lewis, he took the stand as a state's witness, like I said, at Tennessee's trial, which started in December, on December 15, 2020. Now court records indicate that the entire idea for the quote lick came from said now, do you know what a lick is?
Uncle Sawyer:It's a heist job or a way to get money.
Kellye:Right, and I actually think the way that he described it in the in the appeal was when an officer asked what a lick meant, the officer replied quote it means they are committing a robbery or a theft. They hit a lick, unquote. So I have heard it a couple times before and I had to ask because I am the widest of white girls, so I had. Yeah, the only reason I knew it was because I'd asked about it before.
Kellye:So he said the entire idea for the lit came from said or Tennessee, and that Jimmy Lewis says that he was just trying to help his friend when he shot little Fred. So basically what he got on the stand and said was little Fred was beating the hell out of Tennessee and I had to do something to stop it. He wouldn't stop. I thought he was going to kill him so I shot him. He was just trying to help me. So he got on the stand at Tennessee's trial and said and then he also said again he didn't mean to shoot him, he just wanted to scare him, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense from the autopsy report, not when you point blank to the back of someone's head.
Kellye:Point blank. There was stippling, there was like the peeling back around the wound. So you know that the heat of that barrel was right near the back of his head. It wasn't an accident, he couldn't have missed.
Uncle Sawyer:So I always scared him a bit for about a millionth of a second no.
Kellye:So Tennessee's entire defense centered around the idea which is actually a good thing that he didn't have time to be a at least it was fast because that torture part hurts. But Tennessee's entire defense centered around the idea that he had absolutely nothing to do with the attempted robbery, slash, murder and had just been along for the ride. Now the first recorded that he's that he first recorded statement. He said he never tried to stop Lewis because he had a gun and that he took off in the victim's car because he was, quote, fucked up in the head, unquote about what had happened, and added that he was scared of Lewis and he knew he still had the gun and he had just shot this guy in the back of the head. So I'm going to take off in this really nice, expensive car and try to go sell it in New Orleans because I'm scared of him.
Kellye:So it didn't didn't follow real well, but that's what he said. And after all the evidence was presented and all the witnesses called and two full days of trial. So his was a little bit less lengthy because they didn't have as many things to go through because he wasn't the one who shot him. You know, they just had to cover the basics on that stuff. They had more had to get into the technicalities of why he was complicit and why he should be convicted in his trial. So the defense called no witnesses. Tennessee did not take the sand. They went out on December 17th for 36 minutes and came back again unanimous finding Tennessee guilty of second degree murder, Although he wasn't the one who pulled the trigger. But they said that he played an essential role and that without him and this is why we talked earlier about him calling him, Uncle said being in a relationship with him.
Kellye:And if not first said Uncle said being with him on the side of the road he never would have picked up Jimmy O'Neill Lewis by himself. If it was just Lewis on the side of the road he would have said I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go see my mama. And that's super unfortunate. But that's one of the reasons that they said that without Tennessee Little Fred may still be alive. And because second degree murder carries a mandatory sentence of life without parole, that's exactly what he and Tennessee both received. So both defend its submitted appeals to the Third Circuit Court of Appeals and both of them were confirmed. I can briefly go through the assignments of error, what they said, that you know they thought they could get off on.
Uncle Sawyer:So what is an actual appeal Do? All right, so it's just to basically either try to get their sentence shortened or no, no, no no.
Kellye:So your basis, our entire idea behind an appeal is to get your conviction either overturned, thrown out or lessened, or to have both. It's either or or both. So either your conviction overturned, changed or lessened to get a new trial. Have them go back and say okay, you guys screwed up in the court proceedings, so you have to go back, which at that point would also change your sentence. So you can have just your sentence being adjusted for whatever reason, or you can have the entire trial thrown out and conviction thrown out, and then you have to start the whole thing over. Basically everything starts over. So that's what you're trying to do and what appellate attorneys and those are also provided by the state. They put their best feet forward. They will say and pick apart every single thing. That's why you know public defenders a lot of times and all attorneys will when they're saying for the record, I want to note my objection for the record, even though it's being sustained like note it because later when they go to appeal, they can't say that I didn't object or that I didn't make the argument, that that shouldn't be allowed, so that that can't be something. They come back on appeal and say his convictions overturned, his trial needs to be redone, go back to court and do it again because the lawyer didn't do his job. That's why they do that. So I know it sounds like a lot of hiblihu blah while they do it. That that's the reason is because later on appeal, these appellate attorneys come in here and say okay, well, this is for Lewis.
Kellye:His appellate attorneys had four assignments of error, and they were. One was that the defendant didn't have the right to confront and cross examine the witnesses against him and was violated when the jury was advised of the out of court statement. So what that was was they introduced Lewis's or, I'm sorry, tennessee's statements or Lewis's statements, lewis's. They introduced his statements as evidence and they he didn't then get on the stand. So because he didn't get on the stand, they were arguing that they didn't get the cross examine the witness that the prosecution was using the which is I mean.
Uncle Sawyer:I mean it follows in and of itself is hilarious, because both of the statements were like admitting to what they did.
Kellye:Right. But at the same time it's hilarious because they're like okay, well, the defendant didn't get on the stand, so we're going to say that we couldn't cross examine him because he gave a confession that we didn't get to cross examine our own defendant for like personal access to.
Kellye:So, and then also by the co-defendant as well. So they were saying that they played his, his test statements made to police, the recorded audio statements, and because they didn't get a chance. Now that is actually a wonderful argument, because you're supposed to be able to cross examine. That's a lot of times why they don't allow police interviews to be used as evidence. They can use them as to refer to or they can submit them, as long as that person is also going to be on the stand, so they can then ask questions and go back and forth. But they also had another person that apparently was charged after the fact and so that was just the one.
Kellye:Now, the second one they said was the inadmissible I'm sorry, they admitted inadmissible hearsay evidence of Mr Riley. This was the accessory after the fact because he did help clean up the car or whatever, and remove the vanity plates, and they said that they aired in admitting that as evidence hearsay evidence because they had no actual proof of what happened to it. You know, could have got blown off by the wind or hit a, they could have backed over a pole and it fell off, whatever. So they also said that the irregularities in the process of the return of the verdict and the polling of the jury and the possibility of an alternate juror being in the jury room during deliberations, so that basically they said, because they didn't circle the right thing on the paper when they did the verdict, that they screwed up and they needed a rebree trial because they didn't yeah they didn't circle the right thing.
Kellye:And they also thought that one of the alternates, which is not allowed once they go into due deliberations, the alternates are dismissed, but neither was enough for it to be a new trial. But that's what they were arguing that it could be. And then the fourth one says this, and I'm going to quote this one directly quote should this honorable court find review of assigned errors number one, two or three precluded due to lack of objection by defense counsel or insufficient basis provided for the objection, it was denied effective assistance of counsel in connection therewith and review should be granted on that basis. Fancy, freaking way of saying ineffective assistance of counsel. So they're saying that he didn't object enough, which is what we were just talking about Because he didn't say like, hey, these three things should never have been allowed in the original trial. Why didn't the lawyer try to stop it or say something? And that in and of itself was enough to grant the the overturning of the verdict and trial.
Kellye:So the appellate judges were like after reviewing the record, we find there are no errors, patent, and then they go over. Why, basically they? They just come over and say like you know, you guys are wrong, they did the best that they could do. This was brought up ahead of time because I know, I know, specifically for the testimony and for Riley's evidence and hearsay stuff that was all ruled on by the judge prior to the actual trial. Because they bring that in like, excuse me, what's the word? Pretrial conferences? That's where they bring up things where they want to suppress evidence or they want to suppress certain things before they ever get to trial, before they ever get to a jury, and those things had already been ruled on. So they can't come, come back after the fact and say, ok, well, we didn't, they didn't object, or you know, there was no argument made for this, they were in in pretrial conferences.
Uncle Sawyer:So all the issues they brought up were already addressed.
Kellye:Right, Basically. Yeah, and you know the appellate attorneys, that's their job. Their jobs are to poke holes in every single little bitty thing in the same way that it defends. We don't have to prove the whole picture, we just have to prove one thing wrong. We just have to make you put poke that one reasonable doubt is a fickle bitch.
Kellye:Right. So, in in the logic following all of that sentiment, it would be harder to for the, for it's supposed to be supposed to work out like that, but it's harder for the prosecutor, and it's supposed to be. You know one of those and, depending on the attorney, it can be easier, it can be hard, but whatever, you know what I mean, it's hard. It's hard when you have a testimony, when you have a freaking recorded statement saying I shot the guy.
Uncle Sawyer:I mean it gets. It depends on what she looks like whether it's large enough.
Kellye:Anyway. So his Jimmy O'Neill Lewis, his appeal was upheld. He didn't visit no, no, you're going to say in jail. And then Tennessee, he filed an appeal as well. His came back in February of this year and his was on the facts, on the errors, that that the evidence that was admitted at trial was insufficient to prove that he had committed or was a principal to the robbery or attempted robbery and therefore was not a principal to second degree murder. They also asserted that the court abused his discretion when it denied Tennessee's motion for a new trial. There and again, with the pre-trial conferences, they allowed the statements made by Jimmy Lewis in 2020 and they gave them. Apparently they gave them two in the morning of the trial to be admitted, but I don't fully believe that. They probably turned over like the paper version or something. But that's just speculation, pure speculation, objection, speculation.
Kellye:So the other one for Tennessee. There's two more. They both had four. That's interesting.
Kellye:The third one was they aired in allowing the prejudicial gruesome photographs, and that's that's a pretty standard one in most appeals. Most of the appellate attorneys will say like they bias the jury because they allowed the gruesome photos of the body to be shown, but they had evidentiary value, because they wanted to show the bug activity. They wanted to show the positioning of the body and the drag where he had been drugged to and left, and there was evidentiary reason for that. So they were arguing that the gruesomeness and the bias that it would set was strongly outweighed by their prejudicial effect. But that didn't stand up either. And then the fourth was that the court aired in allowing the state to support the credibility of the witness, jimmy Lewis, before it had been attacked Actually, that one comes back to the prosecution was going in saying oh yeah, you can believe this guy, no problem, without the defense ever having said he was not to be believed and you're not supposed to do that. Until it becomes an issue of credibility, you're not supposed to say you should believe him.
Uncle Sawyer:Like, if you have kids, you already know exactly what she means.
Kellye:Uh-huh.
Uncle Sawyer:You find something wrong, you ask them if they had anything to do with anything and they're like nope, nobody didn't do that specific thing.
Kellye:No, no, no, I picked up the other stuff in the bathroom and I told you that I was going to do that, and then I didn't eat all the ice cream.
Uncle Sawyer:Whatever you always eat on ice cream, no, no no you guys ate, no, no, no, no, no, no, you all ate the whole box of the strawberry things I didn't get. I haven't had a single one.
Kellye:There's a whole of the box in my freezer right now. Go get it, anyway. So again, the appellate judge has said no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not buying any of this. You're good to go. Um, now the information. This is just a footnote of the appeal.
Kellye:The information regarding the personalized plate was actually elicited during the testimony of the victim's mother, carol Williams, which I always thought was interesting. Um, too, because, excuse me, I don't think that Louis even knew what the plate said. He just said that they had taken it off. So, um, that was something that they got from the mom.
Kellye:Um, about the personalized plate, which helped, which makes sense, though, but I mean, like, they knew his password to his phone, they had his tracker, like they were a close knit family, and that's also one of those things that, um, I read a lot about, which is super heartbreaking, because I I get so sucked into these stories because of the different details and because of the twists and the turns and the dips and the dodges, but then I get to the part that this is still a person, this is still a loved one that has been lost, and this, this guy, this amazing human, 27 years old, he never, never, should have been in this position. He never should have been in this situation and it really is one of those just heartbreaking all of them are all. Loss of life is heartbreaking.
Uncle Sawyer:Subbiller.
Kellye:Maximum effort, okay. So in my mind, though, the amount of good this single individual could have done for so many people and so many kids, and especially in in a place like Vidalia or Natchez, you know where a lot of young kids there they struggle, I mean like we don't have this show for no reason I've actually got a juvenile case that we're going to do here pretty soon that is just unbelievable. And then you know, good role models like this are hard to find, and that's my point is that there are so few of these guys out there, and I mean he shows everything about his character. At four o'clock in the morning he picked up two friends, you know, just to take them and drive them to wherever they were going. Now there was some speculation of other events that may or may not have been sexual in nature or that that had been something, but there was absolutely no mention of that and any court documents that I could find. No news, anything. It was it like offhanded comments that I came across in a couple of the interviews by the police. Now, only reason I bring that up is because I don't feel like this had anything to do with any of that. This literally seems to me, like in my professional opinion, my podcast professional armchair detective opinion.
Kellye:I think Jimmy Lewis got jumpy. I think he got antsy and I think that he it was intentional, he meant to pull the trigger, but I think that he wasn't. I don't think he got in there planning to shoot him. I think he got in there, things got heated. He was worried that if said got crap beat out of him, they took his leg and ran off with it or something that he was going to be stuck trying to do with little Fred and he didn't know him well and like he was still thinking about trying to get out of there. And you know the fact that he, he didn't. He didn't get anything out of this. He's the one who shot him in the head, but he didn't get anything. He didn't get a car. He didn't get a car. He got nothing from this. So in my mind that just makes me feel like that this was not what he had planned, how he had planned to end his end his morning that morning.
Uncle Sawyer:Yeah, except for the fact that you know he probably was waiting on old boy to get back with the payday from the car being sold.
Kellye:Maybe that actually is a good Wow, but they got caught before that happened 100%.
Uncle Sawyer:if you get caught, don't talk.
Kellye:Huh, okay, you're right. Well, that makes a hell of a lot more sense. Well, there you go, guys. Yes, that explains it. He was waiting on, said to get back, but like and once he never got any kind of why would he give up the gun and everything though? Because once he got caught, he was like, oh well, I'm screwed.
Uncle Sawyer:Once, yeah Once, he was smart enough to realize that if they had him, they had the other one.
Kellye:Right.
Uncle Sawyer:Mr Whiskey man.
Kellye:Riley.
Uncle Sawyer:Yeah, Cedric, oh Tennessee.
Kellye:Yeah, yeah.
Uncle Sawyer:He's the one that was selling the car Right.
Kellye:Yeah, he's the one who took off to New Orleans. They found him in New Orleans.
Uncle Sawyer:Right. So they figured. He figured that if he was in New Orleans and got caught, I got caught. There's no reason to lie because he's probably gonna wrap me out, so I'm going to do it.
Kellye:Yeah, because he's the one who actually feels like he pulled the actual trigger, so that would make sense.
Uncle Sawyer:Exactly so he was. He was dotting his T cross in his eyes.
Kellye:Well, because they say that the first thing is the crossing his T's and don's.
Uncle Sawyer:Yeah, sure, sure.
Kellye:Sure, sure, what is it? What is it? What's that saying? The first squeal gets the deal. That's what it is. The first one to squeal gets the deal, but they don't get a deal. He didn't get a deal. He shot him in the head. He doesn't. There's no deal in that. So I don't know. But that makes a lot of sense, though that he I guess he said he was going to go like get rid of the gun and stuff and that's, and then that they would meet back up after he sold the truck. And then he went into Riley's Tennessee, went to Riley because he knew he would let him use a shower and stuff and that Riley would help him because he knew Riley.
Kellye:They all sound like the same kind of person, type of person. You know they don't make me say it no, no, that they're the, the scan, the quick money. I need quick money, I need to figure out how I can do it, you know and take advantage of whatever situation that you bring to me. So I'm not going to ask any questions, I'm just going to take the car and you take the car and let me know what happens.
Uncle Sawyer:Sound like you're describing a go get a.
Kellye:Yeah, no, I don't live. Go, get your ass in jail and stay there. I ain't never been in jail.
Uncle Sawyer:I ain't scared of no ghosts.
Kellye:So both defendants are still housed at. Well, technically, both defendants convicted felons, convicted murderers are in jail. As of this recording, jimmy Lewis is an inmate at Angola and Cedric Tennessee is I thought that was in Africa Also. Yes, angola State Penitentiary is one of the worst state pens in the country. Actually, you don't want to, you don't want to be there, that's not, that's not one of the ones you want to go to. They actually are trying, I think right now, I think it's still, they're still working on it. But they were trying to get the juveniles out of there because, just because of how harsh it is, the juvenile offenders that were tried as adults, which you know, like, hey, you did it, you belong there. But the reason I say that is because the very first episode we did Connor Wood. He's an Angola, he's been in Angola since he was 16.
Uncle Sawyer:Okay, so you guys need to leave. However, you do your stuff. A poll should we bring black being black? Bring back gladiators if you're in prison, you can fight to the death. That's it. There's no options, there's no way out, just that's it.
Kellye:That's it. I don't think that's a good idea. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, because I feel like there's a lot of things that that I could say about that kind of stuff.
Uncle Sawyer:But they agreed to it. Let him have it.
Kellye:But no, because then it's not okay here. I'll give you all, I'll concede it to this. Let the family decide and then let the family pick who they fight against.
Uncle Sawyer:Hell, I'm down with that. I'll volunteer.
Kellye:Alright, no, alright. So I just double checked to make sure that he hadn't died or anything since I actually wrote this outline. But Jimmy Lewis is still in Angola and Cedric Tennessee is still housed, currently at the Elaine Hunt Correctional Center, which is basically the rollover, less violent version of Angola, and that's in St Gabriel down there. So they're both still in jail. Those are their forever homes, as you know. Far as that goes, I mean, they've already done their, their appeal. They can submit appeal to the Supreme Court. But again, I need to look up that percentage right now while I'm talking about it. Alright, so they only hear 100 cases per year. So the court operates only nine months out of the year and they only review 100 cases a year.
Uncle Sawyer:Now keep in mind that just because it's 100 cases doesn't mean they're only working 100 times.
Kellye:No, no, no, no, not even a little bit. That's, that's. That's what actually that? Why do they only work 100 cases per year, is the question, and the answer is time absolutely and merit.
Kellye:They want to be able to make sure that they're putting their due diligence into every every answer that they're giving in every review that they do, and that's what we want. And I now I say they only hear 100 cases a year. That doesn't necessarily mean that they. That's why they that appeals take so long, because Cedric in, he put in his appeal immediately back in when they finished in 2021. Was that it? And they actually worked around the COVID stuff that these probably would have gone faster, but anyway, tennessee submitted his appeal in 2021. His didn't come back until February of this year. So they only hear 100. There's still a possibility that they would get to yours if they got you know, the Supreme Court, but that was just to the Third Circuit Court of Appeals, that wasn't to the Supreme Court. They hear more at the Third Third Circuit. So anyway, that's that's that. That's that whole thing.
Uncle Sawyer:You know, this one's a little bit more personal because we actually live here right in this area. I knew one of the dudes just in passing, not really buddy buddy whether I just knew of, more like but it's also really weird to sit here and listen about the places you've been and then the things that happen to them.
Kellye:Oh yeah, wait till we get to the one that's actually going through trial right now. Yeah, that one. He went to Huckies and when I saw that in the discovery I lost my shit.
Uncle Sawyer:That's the bar I work at, all, right, so?
Kellye:anyway, we'll get there. We'll get there. That one's, that one's in, that one's in litigation right now. So I can't, I can't say anything, much else about that one.
Uncle Sawyer:We can't.
Kellye:But yeah, I mean that that literally is the information that they gave you in in the papers, like they went to the bars before he went, allegedly went to her house and strangled her.
Uncle Sawyer:He was all. If it's the time I'm thinking of, he was also on a crap ton of tabs.
Kellye:Yeah, yeah, he admitted to doing all kinds of drugs. I believe I don't. Oh, my god, I remember exactly when this will please be the first I'm thinking of. I don't think you were working there when this happened.
Uncle Sawyer:You might have been, I don't remember. I haven't slept since then.
Kellye:So let me, let me just say thank you to everybody. This has gone on for way too long, but we needed a bigger episode. We've had like chunky, like fulfilling episodes, but they've only been like 35 to 40 minutes or so.
Kellye:This one had a lot more to it, had a lot more working, and then you know there's always going to be a little bit more when there are two defendants or you know more than one victim. And again I'm going to say that it is a loss to humanity to have lost Frederick Little, fred McCrae Jr, and I want to apologize and, you know, say how sorry we are for the loss and, like just humanity, I'm sorry for our loss because this gentleman would have done, and had already done, amazing things. So I just want to make sure that we and everybody out there knows that. So thank you all for listening and bearing with us and thank you, uncle Sager, even though this wasn't unsolved technically.
Uncle Sawyer:Yeah, I know, you just wanted me in here because I sat right here. Well, it had been a minute.
Kellye:It had been a minute and you know I like keeping things interesting and keeping my listeners on their toes and giving the people what they want.
Uncle Sawyer:Hey, I better be in the way they want me.
Kellye:No, I don't know that, but they can let me know. Now I've got actually on the next bonus episode I'm going to read about. I've got like three whole YouTube comments but nobody's still. I still only have six reviews on Apple Podcasts Six.
Kellye:And five on no, you have one, but I have five on Spotify and that's it. That's all I got and I keep begging. Now I've got a ton of followers on TikTok I've got. I'm getting new followers on YouTube and TikTok almost every single day it seems like, and I mean I appreciate that and I love you guys for that, especially since that's a much easier avenue to be able to directly connect to us as a podcast. So keep doing that and keep telling everybody about us, keep telling your friends go to our TikTok, go to our YouTube.
Kellye:I also have a Twitter. I don't do as much on there, but I do like copy and paste the TikToks just to throw them on there and then, if I find interesting news articles for the area that you know I find interesting or you know, want to share with the. I think I have seven followers on there. So, anyway, follow us on there. All of those account names, they're all Send Law podcasts and they're all down below in the show notes. I also have all of the sources listed from today's episode. The majority of this I researched in the clerk's office in Concordia Parish. So the articles there's a couple of new articles and the obituary and the appeals will also be linked as well, and I think that's everything for that. So thank you guys. Thank you, you're welcome. We're going to get a bonus episode out for y'all, hopefully next week sometime. If it's not Monday, tuesday, hopefully then around there somewhere before next Monday after that. But it is the holidays so I can't make any guarantees and actual promises.
Uncle Sawyer:Don't worry, guys, I got your back.
Kellye:But I will continue doing episodes all the way through Christmas and New Year's. I have a wedding next May, so that's when we're going to be taking a little bit of a chunk of a break there. Or we could just, you know, stack up a piece of dough and I plan to do that, or like to revamp an old one or something and redo it Fine, kelly, I'll help more Gosh.
Kellye:See, I knew I could talk him into it. Alright, thank you guys. I love you guys, so so so much Keep listening, keep sharing, keep telling people about us and again, if you have any suggestions and I've got two, three episodes coming up that I got from listener suggestions, so please give me those. It can be any of the methods Email to social media.
Kellye:Any of the social media TikTok, youtube, anything Just give them to me. I want to hear them, I want to follow, I want to research them, I want to podcast them, I want to make. Uncle Saul, your coming here and do this with me again, so this is my room. You guys have wonderful holidays, stay safe, take care of your loved ones, take care of each other and stay safe out there.
Uncle Sawyer:Bye buddy.
Kellye:See ya, bye.
